Solitude and the Spiritual Life

[feranaja]

I'm not sure where to put this, I'm guessing in here..it has to do with personal development, so it's worth a shot.

My topic here is solitude. A number of the great traditions emphasize withdrawal from the world as necessary for spiritual development - but at the same time warn against the dangers of reclusivity for the sake of avoidance. This is an issue I've dealt with for several years now; I enjoy - no, I LOVE my solitude and I do indeed find it helps me focus internally and work more diligently on matters of the spirit. But - I remain aware of the indulgences and temptations of isolation.

Where do you fit on this issue? Is soiltude a necessary aspect of self development, what are the pitfalls, how can we who choose a hermit's life avoid them?
feranaja

[vulnera]

i absolutely love my alone time, and my closest friends and family all know me to be a complete and total hermit.

i try not to "avoid for the sake of reclusivity" as you put it... but it seems fairly inevitable at times. the more involved i become with other people and their non-spiritual pursuits the more i strive to avoid all such contact. its not in my best interest is all...

as far as avoidance of things in general, i tend to deal with things when the time is right, head-on... but there are some things i am avoiding dealing with, maybe its related to my hermityness, maybe fear or something, maybe not... not really sure.

overall... very interesting topic for contemplation

[Aodh]

Personally while I do love time alone, I know that one of my biggest flaws is my inability to be satisfied with being alone. So using the flawed perspective of my own life mirroring that of all others, I would feel that withdrawing from society and the presence of other incarnate beings would manifest a great deal of character and strength from within someone. I think that the completeness of existing as a singular being would help to refocus one's priorities as well as to show us where we truly lie in this world.

Solitude can remove things from our life that we may not have known were injurious to us as well as allow us to truly see what parts of ourself is injurious.

In the end, I think that solitude is something we must all experience in our own time as it's benefits are great but I do not feel that it should be a permanent facet of one's life; interaction with others is too vital to human consciousness and reality for me to think that giving up on it is a good thing.

[vulnera]

imo, sometimes hermits "come back" to society because they are filled with learning and understanding, and they do not wish to leave this place alone, or without having shared it with someone who can gain undertanding from it.

remebrance of such people can become very powerful, even after they have long shed the shell.. and can remain beneficial to the original soul who earned such respect, as well as to those who seek their guidance millenia afterwards.

blablabla... lol, not sure if thats tangentally semi-on-topically acceptable, but whatever...

[Aodh]

I think it is definitely still on topic (and at the very least, it isn't far off if it is).

From what I can tell, you are very correct. To me, this implies that through separation we truly come together; through our personal revelations, we realize that we truly have something to offer to others.

[vulnera]

I think it is definitely still on topic (and at the very least, it isn't far off if it is).

From what I can tell, you are very correct. To me, this implies that through separation we truly come together; through our personal revelations, we realize that we truly have something to offer to others.

bing bing bing bing bing

thats exactly what the main idea was that i was trying to express like a cave-woman, lol

thank you for knowing what i mean... ;)

[feranaja]

It can be jarring when you spend a lot of time in solitude, to come into the clatter and chaos of "civilization"...I lived in Toronto till I was 31 and I had no problem with the streetcars running right by my front door till 3 am...nowadays I wake up if one of my snakes drops off her branch and makes a gentle thud three bedrooms away. I've been sensitized on a physical level, much as eating meatless diet does this to some. It's incredibly uselful for magickal workings which I find have intensified in efficacy as I've grown healthier and more grounded, but it can be a problem in dealing with what most people think of as normal life. I had to sit in rush hour traffic for an hour last week and almots lost my marbles. I don't know how people adapt to it all. And Im not sure my increased awareness isn't, as Dion put it, "unfitting me for everyday life".

On a purely egoistic note, I've been up since four, drinking coffee and shuffling aout in my housecoat, answering PMs and emials and listenng to music. I love this quietude and the feeling of calm it engenders. One other person in my living space would drastically shift the feeling. If that's avoidance, so be it. We only have one life to live and some of us want kids, noise, people all the time - some of us don't.
I try to make sure I'm not just pulling away because its gratifying...the computer and all the people I'm in touch with here help me maintain a sense of connectedness without compromising my love of isolation. Does that sound familar? Pathological in any way?
f

[YsetEternal]

Solitude is great, but I also crave those trips I take into the cities and bask in the energies about them as well as that of my quiet life here in the country.

Oh honey its pathalogical with you, but dont worry, we love you anyway:p

[feranaja]

lol Babs, I guess you're right...
I also love the city time but only if it's, you know- Indian restaurants, shopping, the fun stuff. AS a lifestyle? Uh-uh, been there done that.

f

[YsetEternal]

Indian Restaurants? How depressing. My favorite closed down because the Norwegians here didnt appreciate the authenticity of it. So they turned it into a breakfast buffet.

Now I have to go to the ever generic Taste of India.

I know exactly what you mean, city life isnt what it once was...

Gee I sound old and haggared. How scary is that?

[Kain]

Where do you fit on this issue? Is soiltude a necessary aspect of self development, what are the pitfalls, how can we who choose a hermit's life avoid them?Well, as many around here know, I am a very solitary person in life. Selective public interractions and a monastic lifestyle are aspects I could not see myself without from my current standpoint.

As has been pointed out however, there is quite a danger in the matter of conscious isolation, and that is approaching it out of active aversion. Admittedly, aversion towards the conditions pertaining to current social life is often a factor for most (if not all) adopting the "hermit's lifestyle", however it is important to always make sure it is not your actual leading motivation for chosing it. In my view, in order for the monastic lifestyle to be most productive, it should be approached out of a feeling of deep yet calm necessity, as the only possible set of conditions in which one can be most productive in one's own work, research and inner reflections.

That said, from my point of view at least, isolation is a necessary aspect concerning my personal self development. For many years, I felt as if it was downright necessary for everyone interested in such a conscious endeavor, although I have come to realize that it, like many other things, depends on one's immediate personal agenda and respective goals concerning one's own development. So I will no longer support the view that all seriously interested in active self-development behave in this manner (it being somewhat premature), but rather that some aspects of self development necessarilly require such an environment to become possible.

In the past 2 years or so, Monasticism has been ever growing in my mind...the deeper my personal work and research proceeds, the stronger the concept's "gravitational" force on me. I always intended to get a job that can be done from home and I have come very close to actually bringing such a thing about so that I could maintain the closest lifestyle possible to "Urban Monasticism", although lately I have been all the more very clearly and calmly entertaining the concept of pursuing Monastic life proper, something that I have yet to explore in the years to come, as I intend to visit monastic retreats in accordance to my practices, which are deeply tantric in nature.

What will come of that, I do not know, however I am all for solitude.

Kain

[fr.novumorganum]

I think at the very least a place and some time away, even if for just a period every day, are necessary for magickal endeavor.

[feranaja]

Kain, I have a question here (and thank you for the eloquent reply, too)

You wrote:

"As has been pointed out however, there is quite a danger in the matter of conscious isolation, and that is approaching it out of active aversion. Admittedly, aversion towards the conditions pertaining to current social life is often a factor for most (if not all) adopting the "hermit's lifestyle", however it is important to always make sure it is not your actual leading motivation for chosing it. In my view, in order for the monastic lifestyle to be most productive, it should be approached out of a feeling of deep yet calm necessity, as the only possible set of conditions in which one can be most productive in one's own work, research and inner reflections."

Can't one feel both of these things simultaneously? Does the one cancel out the other?

I thikn ifdeally I'd prefer an isolated community to total isolation. There is a strong element of aversion in my current choice as well as the sense I get nothing done at all in a "normal" life - the huge chanegs I made a year ago, in my health and business life, all came out of a time where I saw almost on one - no dog clubs, no socializing in town with friends, no anything, just work rest and study. And I loved that, tu a few people to meet with and talk, share ritual or just hang out - like minded people - wouldn't go amiss either.

Just some thoughts here, I love the seclusion and wouldn't go back to that crazy"normal" life if I was paid (and I could be, lol).

fera

[Kain]

Can't one feel both of these things simultaneously? Does the one cancel out the other?Well, as I said, one necessarilly will feel both to an extent. However, even though they can co-exist at some level and actually seem to lead to the same mode of action, in a way I'd say they do cancel out each other in a very subtle yet important sense. I find it quite hard to put it into words despite the deep sensation of it, although I will give it a try:

Active aversion is a feeling that springs out of intense annoyance or opposition by something. Thus, it pushes one towards denying and removing that particular influence from one's personal space, as it feels "poisonous" to the person in question.

Necessity is not an emotionally polarized sensation, but arises from the simple fact and observation that the two things will not mix correctly, at least not in the extent that we would desire them to. Thus, it leads to departure rather than aversion, not driven away but going away.

It is important to always look closely to the things that actively avert us the most, for there usually lies a part of us we have not completely re-integrated, whether mentally or emotionally. Intense emotional outbursts show that an internal process and interraction still takes place with the subject in question, and that not all aspects of oneself are fully in place concerning a certain decision. When those aspects have actually completed this process, the emotional annoyance is pretty much not even experienced anymore (as one becomes immune to it, having redefined one's own matching internal imbalance) and all that remains is practical decision-making. In such a state, only the Creative passion remains, and all other negative or clinging intense emotional sensations no longer occur as there is nothing to fear or want from the other party, making practical conditions the only thing you care to learn in order to decide whether it fits your personal agenda or not.

So, to avoid over-reaction to a situation that may actually denote that a self-redefinition on out own part must take place for balance to be back in our lives, my point was that we must make sure that our most intense driving sensation is that of Necessity, meaning that we are not over-emotionally averted by the current situation (which would denote a gap/imbalance in our own defences) but that the practical conditions are not favorable, and that we must act accordingly due to that fact to retain the quality of our life and work. In a nut-shell, since we function through Action and Reaction, Over-Reaction should be avoided because it will bring about unwanted Action.

Hope that made some sense feranaja.
Just some thoughts here, I love the seclusion and wouldn't go back to that crazy"normal" life if I was paid (and I could be, lol).Nope, certainly not...in fact, things are hardly getting done as it is in my current situation!

Kain

[feranaja]

Ok - been mulling this over for a day now and here's the one thing that sticks out in my mind as needing further exploration.

you wrote:

"It is important to always look closely to the things that actively avert us the most, for there usually lies a part of us we have not completely re-integrated, whether mentally or emotionally. Intense emotional outbursts show that an internal process and interraction still takes place with the subject in question, and that not all aspects of oneself are fully in place concerning a certain decision."

I know this is a popular idea and I do think there is some value to it, but when stated as an Absolute it doesn't sit right with me. I think it's more accurate to say that heightened emotional reactions CAN indicate some unintegrated aspect pf the psyche, but not possible to state they *always* do. For example, if I encounter someone who is very opinionated and pushy, I may dislike them because on one level I have to fight with myself not to be pushy about my own beliefs - fair enough. But when I encounter someone who is cruel to animals, the emotional reaction I would have wouldn't fall under that category. In the latter case my "outburst" would be righteous indignation at something I find reprehensible. SO I think it's a bit of an overstatement and perhaps denigrates the original point if one suggests that all emotional reactions indicate undealt-with Shadow.

I do appreciate the distinction between aversion and necessity. I've been in a highly emotional state for about 3 months now and keep hearing myself say that I need to change everything in my life, go back to university and finish my degree, move to the East Coast and so on. At least one part of me is listening to the other rant. I know this is a reaction to the emotions I'm experiencing - and may or may not indicate some necessary part of the soul speaking. It's impossible to have clarity until things settle down, so I just take note of the voice, and wait to see what its saying in six months time. For my part, I suspect that sometimes, the soul's deepest truths only emerge during times of heightened emotional stress - maybe its precisely these challenges to our perceived mental status quo that are needed to bring us back to ourselves?


fera

[Kain]

Ok - been mulling this over for a day now and here's the one thing that sticks out in my mind as needing further exploration.

you wrote:

"It is important to always look closely to the things that actively avert us the most, for there usually lies a part of us we have not completely re-integrated, whether mentally or emotionally. Intense emotional outbursts show that an internal process and interraction still takes place with the subject in question, and that not all aspects of oneself are fully in place concerning a certain decision."

I know this is a popular idea and I do think there is some value to it, but when stated as an Absolute it doesn't sit right with me. I think it's more accurate to say that heightened emotional reactions CAN indicate some unintegrated aspect pf the psyche, but not possible to state they *always* do. For example, if I enocunter someone who is very opinionated and pushy, I may dislike them because on one level I have to fight with myself not to be pushy about my own beliefs - fair enough. But when I encounter someone who is cruel to animals, the emotional reaction I would have wouldn't fall under that category. In the latter case my "outburst" would be righteous indignation at something I find reprehensible. SO I think it's a bit of an overstatement and perhaps denigrates the original point if one suggests that all emotional reactions suggest undealt-with SHadow.No, that's not how I meant it. I find the popular way of such a statement to be true to an extent, although as you say it could not be stated as an absolute without sounding pretty much like a huge blanket statement (and from a rather ignorant source too). I do clearly see what may be called a higher correspondance of such a statement though, which is a bit hard to define as I previously said. It mainly has to do with an intense experience of the so-called "One Mind" consciousness. Since I (like many here) beleive that the whole process of evolution and Self-development is nothing more than a process of aligning what we currently "are" with the One Mind consciousness, it all has to do in a way with training in our systems "correct thinking" and "correct action". The "Superior Human Being" in all it's aspects is just a human being emulating Universal Law in a much closer and intense sense, thus getting the benefits from such a fusion. Now, since the One Mind consciousness always and necessarily functions in the realm of necessity, it's actions are never characterized by over-reactions or aversions, but simply by doing what has to be done in each situation, never losing it's balance and calmness. It acts neither more, nor less, just exactly as much as it should. Flawless action, in all levels (emotional, mental etc). Since such is what we are moving towards and aligning to, it also defines what we may call "correct behavior" as has been stated by various philosophical systems. In accordance with "the Way", and so on.

Now, in this context, what makes us differentiated from this concept, and also incomplete until we manage to achieve it, is all those actions and re-actions pertaining to our behavior acting independantly from such an influence. In a way, we could class here all behavior that "needed not have taken place", being over- or under-reactive to a stimulus, and having us becoming dissonant to correct behavior. As I said, this is a very big issue really and it perhaps doesn't make much sense as I am putting it in this format. However the point is that some behavioral patterns are pretty much dissonant by default, as they are brought about by profound "anatomical" errors on our part. Most of us are pretty much steeped with these, so the immediate question is not so much to eliminate such behavior but to have it under moderation and aspire to total elimination.

Thus, a maintanance of internal balance and swift yet "aligned" action is desired. In general, the semi-independancy of our faculties should be avoided, in all it's possible expressions. Excessive emotional or mental reaction in a situation that does not require it but in fact such causes one to temporarilly come off balance, (to me) shows a divergeance, even what is acted upon is overall what we intended to do in the first place. It is this divergeance (which made it's presence known from excessive reaction) that needs to be re-intengrated, it bringing about dissonance in all one's other faculties and preventing alignment.

This is a rather different subject from what we are discussing here however, although I guess my overview made some more sense and differentiated this point of view from the the more popular idea you initially thought I was referring to fera.

For my part, I suspect that sometimes, the soul's deepest truths only emerge during times of heightened emotional stress - maybe its precisely these challenges to our perceived mental status quo that are needed to bring us back to ourselves?I would certainly agree and have had this happen quite often...in my view it is usually a sign the status quo we had established was not the "correct" status quo all along...

Kain

[feranaja]

Update; this last 4 weeks I have been inundated with "busy-ness" and human company. I feel like I'm unravelling some of the time - if I don't get a serious chunk of solitude soon I think I'll lose it! I don't think ADD people do well with constant distraction. I have three days ahead of activity - inlcuding teaching a cooking class Tuesday which I've been really looking forward to - and I can't WAIT till Wednesday when I get four whole days all by myself out here.

I think for me at least, solitude is not *just* a spiritual prerequisite, it's a biological necessity.

fera

[Kain]

Update; this last 4 weeks I have been inundated with "busy-ness" and human company. I feel like I'm unravelling some of the time - if I don't get a serious chunk of solitude soon I think I'll lose it! I don't think ADD people do well with constant distraction. I have three days ahead of activity - inlcuding teaching a cooking class Tuesday which I've been really looking forward to - and I can't WAIT till Wednesday when I get four whole days all by myself out here.

I think for me at least, solitude is not *just* a spiritual prerequisite, it's a biological necessity. I think it is certainly a biological necessity for me as well fera...and I think it actually does that due to it's spiritual prerequisiteness. Because the two are absolutely reconcilable in the end too, and that shouldn't be forgotten.

Personally, I have an incredibly synchronized physical and subtle constitution, encountering intense psychosomatic effects on a regular basis throughout most of my life. Too much exposure gets to me directly and manifests as irregularity of various physical faculties, illness and depression among other things. Due to this factor, I managed to redefine my personal lengths of exposure according to my needs and aspirations, realizing that I in fact do not "have" to do a large portion of socially-related things I found myself engaging at. Through this redefinition, a healthy ratio got eventually applied. That needs to be re-evaluated at certain intervals however, and become re-adjusted according to our innermost desires and goals. In short, the balance point needs to be re-adjusted occasionally, bringing with it the familiar healthiness it always endows once operational...

Kain