Satanism & Tantricism

[m1thr0s]

I want to put forward a thought here that has been brewing in the back of my mind for some time and just see if anybody else has any feelings about it one way or the next. I have been formally a "student" of Satanism for maybe 5 or 6 years now and prior to that I think I was an informal student of Satanism for maybe upwards to 10-15 years. But it has always bothered me that Satanism seems to lack a core of any kind really and within this past year in particular I think I discovered what the problem actually is.

Satanism is Pure Philosophy. There is no "methodology" to Satanism. You can talk the talk, but how are you supposed to walk the walk? Unlike nearly every other "religion" on earth, there is no code of conduct in Satanism. There is no such thing as a uniquely Satanic form of Action. If we consider dressing up in Satanic looking garb and getting in people's faces with Satanic gestures and rhetoric to be Satanic, this is no different than Punk Rock or Rap or dozens of other cultural trends really. There is nothing especially unique or defining in any of this. Furthermore, it draws people away from the one strength Satanism really has - its philosophy.

Now I am not just coming from some sort of casual observation level here. When I take on a formal study I dive into it hard. Among other things I was the moderator of the Satanism Forum at Occult Forums (back when there was an Occult Forums) and I have taken a lot of people out at the knees regarding Satanism and engaged in hundreds of debates/discussions knock-down-drag-out-fights and all the rest. I feel quite strongly that I am a Satanist, philosophically and I really don't consider "Theistic Satanism" to be anything much more intelligent than Boogeymanism quite frankly. It is simply a reactionary shadow of Christianity from my perspective and has no soul of its own. But Satanic Philosophy itself actually does stand for something. It is Autotheism in its rawest and purest form. It is all about the Deity Within as much as it is about the uniting of Animal and God Natures in Man. It denies neither of these and bows down to neither of these but seeks rather to exalt and equilibrate these two natures in one grand unified whole...

But wait...that almost sounds like some sort of Action! And that's exactly where we run into a peculiar paradox with Satanism and that's why there are no Satanic churches or townships or schools or freaking hot dog stands for that matter because Satanism itself takes us right to the brink of Action and then stops dead. Why does it do that? Perhaps because Satanism is Pure Philosophy and nothing more or less than that. In order for Satanism to fulfill its own philosophical ambitions it MUST turn somewhere else...it MUST import some other kind of methodology. Enter Tantricism...

Satanism does a lot of lip-service to "becoming a god" or "being your own god" or a dozen or more variations on this theme, all implying some mysterious process of "becoming" that it never quite gets around to specifying the particulars of. A few Satanists have attempted to get around this by demanding that this is all a matter of simple acknowledgment of that which is already so that there is really nothing more to be done about it at all but these desparate few are living in a dream world that bears no resemblance to life as we know it...which is on its face a process of Change, for better or for worse. Simply accepting the fact that you are a god already does absolutely nothing to empower you with any of the expected attributes of a god so that your godhood...should you choose to accept it...will be in every conceivable way indistinguishable from the next person's simple humanity. If we do not accept the burden of "becoming", we cannot "become" more than we are...it's academic really. We are in that case living a life of denial, plain and simple.

On the other hand, if we acknowledge that Satanism is Pure Philosophy that has its roots in the principles and assertions of Autotheism itself...suddenly a lot of things are possible. In order to realize this "becoming" we need only Import the tantrick arts and sciences into the mix and voila...we have a fully functional Satanic form of Action going on! So this is my basic premise and I am writing stream-of-consciousness here so there are certain gaps in my presentation you'll just have to live with or ask me about or whatever. But I have come to believe that Satanism IS unique as a philosophical system but cannot ever in itself be any more than a philosophy so long as it refuses to deal with this whole business of becoming. There has to be a methodology or your philosophy isn't strong against the elements...it cannot pay the bills and it cannot get you to the train on time.

Since as far back as recorded history can take us there has always been some trace of this Autotheistic Philosophy and I maintain that anything that asserts the Rule of Self over the Rule of God is on its face, Satanic. This means that we are not confined to the Christian "Satan" or any other single form of Satan or its approximate equivalence. Once we embrace Tantricism and the technology of "becoming" that exists there, we are on our way to a Satanism that is strong and can compete with the most dynamic philosophies this world has ever produced. If we cannot do this, we are pissing against the wind my friends and our Satanism will die before its ever begun. If you cannot come to terms with Action, you are not well suited to life itself, neither in this world, nor any other.

Note: While it is not specifically addressing my own thesis, I want to draw attention to a very good article that supports many of my conclusions above. Some of you may have already read: Why I'm Not a Satanist (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/criticism/deinsen.html)

m1thr0s

[Amur]

There is a good indicator when something is in it's roots, meaning that it is in it's own nature. When things are flowing and people are becoming empowered things are going good. But when things are de-empowering with cause of inadequate action, things are going to hell. Looking at how the world is massive with de-empowering loops, it's quite scary to look at how stupid the whole structure really is. I still vote for the astral God-Zap with well-targeted and placed coordinate(s).

Satanism, like mathematics, is meant to stand upon it's own individual base, which means that the base-structures are logically already adept to be strong and well-placed. Otherwise the system wouldn't work from scratch and it would become another religion.

There are probably people all around the globe who are naturally adept satanists already even though they've never heard the term before.

[m1thr0s]

What I often seem to find is that people who are disciplined individuals and might in all other respects be considered dedicated autotheists by nature and design, do not openly call themselves Satanists as this has come to denote the exact opposite of everything it ought to stand for...so we have this ridiculous situation where the best and brightest Satanists out there are calling themselves rock stars or screen writers or techies or anything but Satanists... Even me, coming into this forum, wanted to just 86 the whole damn language because in a very real sense I don't even need it to discuss Mutational Alchemy etc...but the truth is that there are some core assumptions I can never get away from and have no wish to do so anyway...

This crap has to stop...somebody has to stand up against this bullshit...

might as well be me.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Hail Satan...:p

[m1thr0s]

lol...now that I did not expect!!!

edit: I should probably also stipulate that I am not 100% dead-set (pardon the pun) against Theistic Satanism either, so long as it is cognizant of the entire thread of archetypal associations involved and not just locked into one central "spook" as it were. To do this right you have to be willing to consider Serpentine archetypes from all over the world as well as Demonic archetypes and Dark Archetypes of every kind and caliber. Theists who can handle that are totally ok with me...but those who have locked on to a single manifestation are just the same old fundamentalists in a different packaging from my perspective...

m1thr0s

[feranaja]

You know...I'm sure I am only half understanding this m1thr0s. In essence, what you're saying in the first post has great appeal to me, perhaps in a way that
is difficult to articulate, so I'll put it very plainly.

For me, the idea of worshipping the Christian Satan is what defines the whole idea, of Satanism and you are saying this isn't so. Ok - your philosophy, and emphasis on Action is extremely appealing and very much in line with my own thinking, although I do honour the idea of archetype...I just balk at the name Satanism because it seems to refer to Christianity. So that's a problem, I actually prefer Jesus to either Yahweh or Satan. My personal ideals are all about kindness, compassion, justice and love - so it SEEMS to me there is a dissonance here. However let me be clear - I do NOT equate these ideals with weakness, permissiveness or soft- headed pseudo ideologies. It can be courageous beyond belief to stand up for compassion. And there has to be balance. Now I am probably digressing and ranting so feel free to direct me to a more explanatory thread if this isn't germane to your topic. But - I am intrigued by a lot of what you say, and especially the emphasis on Action. This for me, entails a lot of introspection with a great deal of courage, ingenuity and determination. I may be pursuing soft and gentle goals but I do so in a ferociously committed fashion. Follwoing my WMT path has led me more to INaction in many ways and I've struggled with that a lot - but thats another topic I should think.

Let me just put this in plain language, if I may. For me, I cannot do anything I want to without the security of having money. I need my own land and enough income to pursue my goals and dreams in relative comfort and without the stress of ongoing money worry. Ok - we're all in the same boat on that one. now what stands in my way? Well for a longtime, health, so I've worked my ass off (quite literally) to improve that one. Thats what I mean by Action.
I'm healthier and my morale is better so now I can work more.
Step Number One under my belt - now on to how to work more wisely.

And so on. Not explicit "magick" in the same sense as, say, evoking a demon or performing a spell, but far more important in terms of my personal transformation and realization of potential. The Inner and Outer must proceed in concert with one another.

So - what differentiates me from any other poor sod out there bsting their butt to make some money? The philosophy that informs the action, really. And so here Ive come full circle - to your last post. I am with your igiht up till this part:

"To do this right you have to be willing to consider Serpentine archetypes from all over the world as well as Demonic archetypes and Dark Archetypes of every kind and caliber. "

Why?
Does this mean to consider these archetypes as well as, or in place of, other archetypal possibilities - Jesus, pagan dieties and so on...why only Dark ones?

Sorry if I sound like a blithering idiot, remember I am not versed in the ideas of Satanism at all and I'm just thinking, poeple may be acting as Satanists philosophically but do not want to be associated with the D&D sort of pop culture "I'm so evil" mental image that many have...and fair enough, if youve worked through a lot of Shadow, maybe you prefer not to glorify it...if you've considered the Dark Archetypes too much, maybe you actually need to face the challenges of other types?


Can you dumb this down a bit for a newbie? What is the philosphy, and what is the method?


Just tossing out some musings here - a great thread...
fera

[feranaja]

Ok, I wish I'd seen your other thread first, I'm reading through it now and it seems to be clearing up some of my fundamental questions and misgivings now...more questions will arise I'm sure but a lot of answers in there...
fera

[Kuroyagi]

If we do not accept the burden of "becoming", we cannot "become" more than we are...it's academic really. We are in that case living a life of denial, plain and simple.[…]

There has to be a methodology or your philosophy isn't strong against the elements...it cannot pay the bills and it cannot get you to the train on time.[…]

Since as far back as recorded history can take us there has always been some trace of this Autotheistic Philosophy and I maintain that anything that asserts the Rule of Self over the Rule of God is on its face, Satanic.[…]

Looking at the history of man and my practical life I came to the conclusion that a playful anarchism is the most productive method. The theory of progress of humanity is saddling the horse the wrong way. It too often claims the primate of some theoretical knowledge that came first or some god-given ideas, when in fact many inventions have been made without any congruent methods at all. Theories, especially in the sciences, sometimes merely serve to reduce, to generalize and to artistically embellish the things that have been found out, retrospectively; the practices themselves often have been discovered by trial or by fanciful or even leisurely (humorous, sadistic…) play (tantric sex, arts, meditation, sciences or whatever). Rationality and logic are not required for such practices and neither for such discoveries, but neither are they excluded from them- there are bigots both amongst the rationalists and the religious types, so to speak: That’s why its wise to look at the individual and at oneself. Very often our best teacher is the physical and especially the physiological, our own body: that’s where the lightning strikes.

The whole process of creation in whatever form is not directed by a certain pre-defined program because it (this process) contains the condition for the realization of possible programs within it. This process is rather directed by an ineffable urge, by some sort of passion. Maybe this could be called a Satanic one…

[m1thr0s]

Sometimes the best way to determine what is or is not "Satanic", paradoxically, is to take a look at at what Christian fundamentalists regard, or have at any time regarded as Satanic. Why? Well, for one thing, because it spans a pretty wide gambit and understanding that range is useful in preventing your own thinking from becoming too narrowed. And what we really find is that, historically, anything that dissented from the popular dogma of the day was typically coined Satanic...that's a pretty wide range and covers everything from mid-wives to early scientists to humanist philosopher's and so on. Nobody really cared whether these guilty parties did or did not worship a being called Satan...that was just assumed. Their actual crime was that they did not go along with the prevailing dogmas of their respective timeframes. So that tells us something we need to know. Being a Satanist doesn't actually imply or involve a character called Satan at all...it only really implies standing "oppositionally" to the status quo...

What I am saying is that where these people really ran into trouble is that they were caught in a double-bind situation they could not escape from and at the core of that conflict was always the matter of being true to themselves and what they knew to be the truth vs that which they knew to not be the truth. They had to choose between the Rule of Self (which I take to mean the God Within) and the Rule of God (which I take to mean the God Without). This is the measuring rod I am basically using as well but it is not restricted to any character called Satan. Even LaVey was very clear on this point...that Satanism is just a term of convenience and does not imply dedication to some character called Satan. It is fundamentally, at its core, a commitment to Self that will, if need be, stand oppositionally to the so-called rule of God.

Now I do, of course, acknowledge that just because a person has been accused of being a Satanist doesn't mean that they are one. I do think there has to be a conscious choice of some kind or the whole thing becomes ridiculous. But I believe that at the core of this choice is always the matter of Self-Rule itself which brings us full circle to Autotheism. Even among the Tantras, it is those who opt away from so-called "devotional" practises that become labeled as Left-Hand-Path practitioners, so the principle of Autotheism, Autodeism, etc is always visibly present in the Satanic Philosophy. It is too bad, in some ways, that the term Suitheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitheism) seems to have fallen by the wayside as it does in many respects make just as good (if not better) an accounting of Satanic Thought itself. Just because I am God doesn't mean that you are not God etc... Where the Islamic might say There is no God but Allah...the Suitheist might say there is no God, but God... But Autotheism returns the emphasis back to Self, and I think that this is why it has gained momentum over the other. This emphasis on Self (and True Self) is key.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Being a Satanist doesn't actually imply or involve a character called Satan at all...it only really implies standing "oppositionally" to the status quo...It is fundamentally, at its core, a commitment to Self that will, if need be, stand oppositionally to the so-called rule of God.Now I do, of course, acknowledge that just because a person has been accused of being a Satanist doesn't mean that they are one. I do think there has to be a conscious choice of some kind or the whole thing becomes ridiculous. But I believe that at the core of this choice is always the matter of Self-Rule itself which brings us full circle to Autotheism. Even among the Tantras, it is those who opt away from so-called "devotional" practises that become labeled as Left-Hand-Path practitioners, so the principle of Autotheism, Autodeism, etc is always visibly present in the Satanic Philosophy. It is too bad, in some ways, that the term Suitheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitheism) seems to have fallen by the wayside as it does in many respects make just as good (if not better) an accounting of Satanic Thought itself. Just because I am God doesn't mean that you are not God etc... Where the Islamic might say There is no God but Allah...the Suitheist might say there is no God, but God... But Autotheism returns the emphasis back to Self, and I think that this is why it has gained momentum over the other. This emphasis on Self (and True Self) is key.Great points put across m1thr0s, well done!

Well, as a dedicated Autotheist and Tantricist with heavy Satanic leanings, I'm sure you know I personally feel perfectly at home with pretty much all of your presented assertions here. It's good to get clear on all this stuff, and unfortunately it is so rarely that anyone ever tries to do such a thing concerning Satanic thought, philosophy and action/practice.

You know, emphasis on Self really is the key. However, the more time passes the more I am drawn to the following conclusion: Satanism is a philosophical system that is by default oppositional, as has been already said. However, the interesting thing is that all the more, I see no "God" opposing me...! At least not in an internal fashion. Perhaps so outside of my personal space, but nobody pries in that space with Godly stature or intentions. So it has all taken a much more optimizational turn towards what happens to from now onbe "my province", so to speak...bringing me full circle back to Autotheism proper, as in that context I am unmistakably God and whatever exiled petty resistance still remains is certainly the defiant offshoot and flee-er of the Law...

So I wanted to point out this peculiar interplay and complementary nature between Autotheism and Satanism, and how Defying God and Assuming God pretty much points towards the same essential "path" and direction. As has been already said, Satanism stressing the point of embracing the God Within and opposing God Without while Autotheism being more emphatic on the Godly nature of the very Self (rather than emphasizing the "opposition" part).

I remember a quite old discussion concerning the nature of the so-called "First Stage Satanist", and the intense oppositional tendencies and cleansing all-out warfare such a phase would entail. I have found this very true in my own development as well, and this has been the case with most people I know. In my current situation however, it is interesting to note that I distinctly feel that I have taken opposition too far (for this immediate turn), so much so that it has become an overreaction and hindrance throwing my system out of balance. In this particular phase, I am currently compelled to emphasize Integration and thus deny me active Opposition, but rather meet oppositional forces in an open yet fiery Embrace and direct interraction with my already set anatomical system which eventually diffuses and absorbs them, removing and semi-independant 'Will" they may have developed and reintegrating them under my Rule. It feels as if I have come to look at oppositional forces as an indicator of something I have not yet integrated, a space Within I have yet to fill/harmonize, thus I address this space as the receptor of the product of my contact with the oppositional force. Tantricism is very important in all this of course, as it allows a solid methodology to practcally pursue the work of "Becoming" and Integration/Transmutation.

So, just a few thoughts on the table that some may find interesting. I agree with all said so far, I just wanted to express some recent reflections of mine I have had no opportunity to before now.

Great thread by the way,

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I agree that the "oppositional" thing is paradoxical...there's no denying it...it shifts and changes all the time.

What I have found however is that it still comes to bear in other ways. Abrahadabra itself is a good example, from my perspective. Here I have a "system" that by all accounts should not exist...that is to say...it isn't "authorized" to exist now is it? It does, in fact, stand oppositionally to many other systems and it will have to prove itself over time if it is to survive...it will have to establish its own authority in the absence of any *traditional* authorization...It survives by the seat of its pants...just because it is so goddam intelligent, essentially, and because the more people delve into it the more they begin to see they can use this stuff for their own purposes if they want to...they can validate it for themselves and so on...

So I still find myself having to battle "sacred cows" on many fronts on a very regular basis...I have defied the Old Guard in all of this and I do defy them constantly...I openly accuse them of having failed to finish the work they started and I am proceeding to get the job done myself according to the best data this world has to offer...None of this need be "hostile" in any way...I don't "hate" anybody over it...but things are what they are and in order to pave way for the new, the old must oftentimes be challenged...nay, dethroned!

So for me all this oppositionalism has simply evolved to a higher (and much nobler) court and now engages Ignorance itself and is no longer fixated on the Faces of Ignorance which may have been presented to me from birth...

edit: all of this is classically Satanic Action from my point of view and hyphenates something not commonly understood...that Satanism...at its best...is a defiant defender of human rights and liberties through and through...it is willing to bite the bullet to take the steps no one else is ready or willing to take and to hell with the ramifications...when it's time to move...it's time to move.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Exactly my point m1thr0s!What I have found however is that it still comes to bear in other ways. Abrahadabra itself is a good example, from my perspective. Here I have a "system" that by all accounts should not exist...that is to say...it isn't "authorized" to exist now is it? It does, in fact, stand oppositionally to many other systems and it will have to prove itself over time if it is to survive...it will have to establish its own authority in the absence of any *traditional* authorization...It survives by the seat of its pants...just because it is so goddam intelligent, essentially, and because the more people delve into it the more they begin to see they can use this stuff for their own purposes if they want to...they can validate it for themselves and so on...Certainly, and right as things should be if you ask me. "The Truth Will Out" as they say, and if anyone is in opposition with that, it will ride them right over. Not out of "hate", but as an immutable Force of Nature and Fact of Life...

There is a difference however between the so called "universal" Law and those a philosophical/metaphysical system/model manages to pick up, emphasize and expand upon. This means that such models are in many ways subjective as has been often said, and need not (and actually must not) be taken for "absolute" truths. We have often discussed the absense of so-called "absolutes" in other instances, and the need for "sacred cows" to be mercilessly hunted down until they are once again dethroned and arrive at their subjective place in the "scheme of totality"...

With this in mind, we could say that the so-called Universal Law is nothing more than a set of enviromental conditions defining our system and environment. The more frictionless and conscious our movement in such a field, the greater our liberties and the stronger our means of expression and fascilitation. The accuracy in which any given metaphysical model manages to capture and emulate those laws in a defined and conscious way (so that it can actually be used to successfully navigate this universal field by it's practitioners) measures the actual success of such a system. With this in mind, no model law is higher than the actual Law, and since models are subjective by nature, they are subject to further evolution so that their power and effects are also redefined. Such a course is highly scientific in nature. In this regard, you are certainly continuing a work left incomplete by traditional authority in this field, and so are we all in a way. Discriminating for ourselves what needs to stay and what to go, what is useful fact and what unsubstantiated speculation or projection. Writers of our own "destiny" and bringers of our personal "salvation" if we be so bold to assert. Mutational Alchemy's ability to stand on it's own feet, without the support of "tradition", clearly shows it's closer connection to Law, Reality, and to how things are actually conducted. Defiance and Opposer of Ignorance as you say, Defender of Truth and Liberty, and of Natural Birthright...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

Mutational Alchemy's ability to stand on it's own feet, without the support of "tradition", clearly shows it's closer connection to Law, Reality, and to how things are actually conducted. Defiance and Opposer of Ignorance as you say, Defender of Truth and Liberty, and of Natural Birthright...Aum Ha!...;)

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Indeed...! :yes:

...hehe...

Kain

[Naomi]

This is a good article. I also wanted to point out that while Tantra is one good methodology, another is yoga, Satanism is very flexible and gives us permission to do whatever the hell we please with our lives and our ethics.

The beauty in this is that tantra also has the close relationship with serpent force and means weaving anyways and so also related well to the symbology of Satanism, Ningishzidda, the Caduceus and other twining serpent symbols.

It also pairs well with tantra in that it empowers the trika to push towards the highest goals of achieving self deification rather than mere balance, something that remains a bit muddied in what's left of the tantras that have survived. Some texts are outright violent and despicable, not unlike myths about Satanism, yet there's always the fringe factor anyways, in any serious discipline.

In some ways I think Satanism is just another face of the same vein of discovery Tantra was tapping into, albeit from a Western perspective. Satanism is a bit more convoluted even in it's modern developments, simply because Western culture is full of debris confusing sex and normalacy. So Satanism benefits from Tantra's age and experience in this regard while Satanism reasserts the goals of "the highest" rather than anything silly like psychic power siddhis or impressing dakinis with your lack of virility...

Alot of it is about giving new life to the old by challenging assumptions and sometimes this can only be done by arranging two similar yet contrasting disciplines or philosophies.

Theistic Satanism will settle down after a while and become a supplement of witchcraft or bhakti I'll bet....personally I have fun with it but there's no real value in it, I agree...