Mixing it all up: the pros and cons of eclecticism

[feranaja]

I've been wanting to start this thread for a while, so here we go. Something in the WIichcraft thread reminded me, but I think this is always a worthwhile area of investigation.

Many of us who have spent years in the WMT - whether that be Wicca, Thelema, GD type magick or any related path - have wound up solitary and eclectic. Some of us (myself included) would resist labelling but have to concede that probbaly what we practise includes Witchcraft and high Magick and both get along just fine, as long as no one is telling us we can't do this. Now I often hear quite valid criticisms of the eclectic style, and more than a few unfair flames as well. I look at what m1thr0s has presented us with and think of the amazing possibilities of pulling various strands together to form a new level or path - and yet, not too many of us are capable of - or inclined to - the colossal and disciplined task of something like Mutational Alchemy - we are a bit lazier and often pragmatic, as in doing what works (and if it doesn't make sense, well - meh). So while emergent traditions are always a great possibility for eclectis, so is just a hodgepodge of "stuff" and while I have no problem with that, it may just mean we dont progress as smoothly or consistently as we would if we worked in a structured tradition.

So - for those of you who consider yourself eclectic - what do you think are the pros and cons of self styled WMT practise? What do you emphasize in your own practise? Are you ecelectic out of choice or the lack of finding a group you really click with? I'd like to just open a discussion on this if anyone is interested.

fera

[Naomi]

OH well, you know, I think it's like this:

You see something you want to understand better, and you have to examine each facet carefully to really know it by heart. For instance, humility and compassion is studied in many Buddhist schools. I think if you really understand something you will naturally just move on to the next thing, though other schools are broader and require a greater foundation of understanding and knowledge than other schools. That's why one religion or school of thought may not be good for another but it's great for someone else. Wherefore upon understanding the facet of that aspect of the universe you come to discover that it is a part of something much greater. I think that process continues for as far as we can see.

And this is just my opinion but I feel that a great many 'eclectics" who jump from one system to the next are just cycling their way back into where they were when they were a unincarnated being or in their past life, the true self, so they can continue their work.

[feranaja]

Good points Naomi - you're thinking of people who move from one method to the next...I'm also thinking of those of us who do several things simultaneously.

Like anything I think eclectism can be a good thing and it is also subject to much abuse. It's wrong to assume that an ecelectic is just toodling aorund avoiding the hard stuff, although I think that's the case at some times. In many other cases though I think people like myself, and probably you - need to go at a concept from multiple perspectives. Befiore I was willing to make a stand on the concpet of deity I absolutely had to look at and experience it on multiple levels.If that males me an ecelectic, so be it. For me, it makes me a thorough and methodical seeker. I can't go on faith or "gnosis" alone. I need to keep on testing. And perosnally, I don't think that's a bad thing. There are areas where suspension of disbelief is emotionally important, and places where intellectual scrutiny is incredibly balancing. Because one evaluates many systems does NOT, ime, imply superficiality - it can, but it can also point in the polar opposite direction.
fera

[Anibis]

Well, when you get a bunch of disparate elements, and throw them together, then I guess you get a hodgepodge. But traditions aren't just one thing. Any tradition is a series of steps, or even 'loops' that are relatively autonamous, no? I think you can take many of these loops from across different systems, and put them into the same field of play, and deeper levels of complexity will arise. The key, though is to integrate them on the level of energy rather than image... Does this make any sense? The way I approach it is: Memorize an alphabet, number and basic forms, and then if I am inclined to go further this basic loop will probably start to refer to some geometry I alread have set up from the vantage point of another system (or pure mathematics), or whatnot. Every such loop gives a certain sort of insight or power. As NaomiChan suggest, at a certain point, you can cycle back to stuff you started earlier, and build on it... Also, we gain transferable insights that cross between specific systems, so it gets a bit easier... This is just a guess. When you make a 'soup' of such fertile material, sooner or later self-organizing life will emerge from it... Far from a hodgepodge, I think... The other great anology here would be the relationship between Creole and Pidjin dialects... When a bunch of people who speak different language are plunked together, they tend to form a rudimentary, 'patchwork' type of language: a Pidgin. They can refer to things and such, but the grammer is artificial, inorganic. The children of Pidgin speakers do something different: they will, as they grow, form real grammatical structures with the language: a Creole emerges, which is a fully organic language... Kindof cool. I leanred this from a Philosophy of Language Prof who was one of Chomsky's students. I think this happens with symbolic languages too. We can assemble a bunch of disparate elements, but sooner or later, they become alive...
-Ibisis

[hitman777]

What I've got pulled together as a "system" is basically a mixture of everything that I like, what I've stumbled upon that works, and a lot of prayer. Criticize if you will, but it works. I like to try out variations of my own or that I pull from the astral, variations on classical techniques, I mean. I've found some techniques that have helped me make some really powerful servitors, for instance, though I know that there are those who have better techniques, probably Brother M for example, maybe. I also like to combine full evocations with other types of workings to augment both, and of course, I do some "witchy" type spellwork. I've recently really been working with NLP more than before, and have been finding cool ways of mixing that with other practices as well. And of course, I can't help but throw out there again that prayer really helps my magick.
As far as sources, I pull from a lot of varied sources, many that a lot of people have no respect for, but hey, it works.
For those looking to get into magic and have some nice, if sometimes a little scary initial successes to sort of keep them going through the long haul, or if you are looking to spice up your current practice (gets ready for boos), I suggest working with whatever appeals to you from Simon's Necronomicon.

[Sibylle]

Self-styled practice seems essential to me. Having studied and practiced various systems, I found that regardless of the regularity of any particular ritual, it did not become natural to me. I don't take external discipline very well. A contrived effort, for me, is an ineffective one, but is good for learning and finding what to incorporate into my own practice.

Working and doing things on my own is most natural to me, but of course I enjoy learning the methods of others. If something seems appealing, I'll look into it further. If it works, it will be integrated into my own practice.

[Talkingfox]

I liken it to languages...the more languages one speaks the more likely one is to be understood in a variety of places and circumstance. The larger the idiom vocabulary the more clearly a concept may be expressed.

[m1thr0s]

one of the main problems with eclecticism is it's very hard to pronounce...

sort of sends half my face into an embarrassing sort of seizure...lol...

sorry...just a little corn from the peanut gallery...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

Lol m1thr0s :D just type it.

I suppose we are all eclectic really to some extent, simply because all of our experiences have led us to where we are now and we probably draw on little strands outside of our own paths.

One of strands come from my Christian upbringing and I still regularly use something I learned as a Catholic to reflect on my path.

It is also true that much of what we do has come from a mix of other traditions, even if they have been altered.

Then there is what we do that might be considered outside of our actual practice, they might seem to be unrelated, but they affect us too; hence, I am not really a great believer in a pure system, I suppose the closest one might get to living that out most perfectly would be to become a monk or nun, or someone devoting an entire life to it and having the supporting architecture around that really.

[MythMath]

edit:

[feranaja]

Then there is what we do that might be considered outside of our actual practice, they might seem to be unrelated, but they affect us too; hence, I am not really a great believer in a pure system, I suppose the closest one might get to living that out most perfectly would be to become a monk or nun, or someone devoting an entire life to it and having the supporting architecture around that really.


but this really appeals to me, you know? Doesnt it to you, on some level? Living an existence purely devoted to the spiritual? BY that I dont mean in a dualistic, anti-physical sense at all, just a disciplined one. One of the big pitfalls of eclecticism is that once the going gets tough the flighty get going. I keep walking the Path of Aphrodite not becasue I'm having such a great time, lol, but because I need to work through the Shadow aspect in order to recieve the full initiation. That always means confrontation with the terrifying, even with a deity as superfically benign as Ms. A. The depth work will shake you to the foundation of your being; my whole last year was an initiation into the Dark face of the Goddess. you have to stick with it and embrace it and just as one can make a Tarot reading say anything if one is clever enough - it's also very tempting to just say - meh, this is getting too hard and decide to do some feng shui crystal sucking for a month or two.

NUhad and i have had many a long inebriated sojourn into this with little resolution other than if you're going to toss the salad, you have to eat every leaf, even the bitter ones. I think I've made th most progress when I've stuck to one path strictly, as when I was doing BOTA work - but that said, I've been careful when mising it up NOT to run scared at the first time of stress and challenge.

Still, it begs the question...
fera

[Radiant Star]

I stuck with something years ago and although I learned a lot, I would have just learned other things if I had shortened the duration of that episode.

To me, it seems we learn the lessons whether we take up a path or not, we might just be more aware of them if we are making a conscious effort on a given path or system.

Though, I do see that if you feel a calling or vocation, then even if the going gets tough, you want to stay with it because you love it despite the trials. Simply because, by being true to yourself, that well deep within is enough to carry you through the tough stuff, which will at some level of understanding seem to be on the outside of that, even if very close to it.

[Sibylle]

I totally agree with all of that, Radiant Star. If one is called, tough times don't change the course. Devotion doesn't allow that.

[m1thr0s]

I feel like I am beginning to hear the same sort of disparity between the spiritual and the physical that I am always railing against. From my perspective, if such a disparity does exist, you almost certainly need a new knid of spiritual practise...one that allows for a cleaner coordination between the above and the below, the within and the without...

This may not be as easy as it sounds. We would like to think that those who came before us have sorted all of this out. This isn't necessarily the truth of it. And in any case, they certainly didn't sort your life out, nor the time and space that you inhabit. It happens sometimes that the only way to work out this kind of balance is to do something completely scary...something original and new...something not altogether tested out before in the forge of day-to-day existence...

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

So - for those of you who consider yourself eclectic - what do you think are the pros and cons of self styled WMT practise? What do you emphasize in your own practise? Are you ecelectic out of choice or the lack of finding a group you really click with? I'd like to just open a discussion on this if anyone is interested.


Apart from picking and choosing an eclectic mix, knowledge of magic stripped down to its basics has allowed me to create an improvising style whereby other people, such as people you live with in any given scenario, are completely unaware that I am a magus practicing magick before their very eyes. A banishing ritual in the guise of a karate kata, magickal weapons in the guise of twigs, a sigil in the guise of a doodle, basically using whatever is in the immediate surroundings, whether that be outdoors or indoors...

[MythMath]

Apart from picking and choosing an eclectic mix, knowledge of magic stripped down to its basics has allowed me to create an improvising style whereby other people, such as people you live with in any given scenario, are completely unaware that I am a magus practicing magick before their very eyes. A banishing ritual in the guise of a karate kata, magickal weapons in the guise of twigs, a sigil in the guise of a doodle, basically using whatever is in the immediate surroundings, whether that be outdoors or indoors...
Lo-tech and hidden in plain sight... ;)

[m1thr0s]

Apart from picking and choosing an eclectic mix, knowledge of magic stripped down to its basics has allowed me to create an improvising style whereby other people, such as people you live with in any given scenario, are completely unaware that I am a magus practicing magick before their very eyes. A banishing ritual in the guise of a karate kata, magickal weapons in the guise of twigs, a sigil in the guise of a doodle, basically using whatever is in the immediate surroundings, whether that be outdoors or indoors...I am personally convinced that this same strategy has been successfully employed by others for mellenia, whenever the tenor of the times becomes too hostile to openly confront...so alchemy becomes "science" and magick becomes "literature" or the "arts" etc...it's a tried-and-true survival strategy.

m1thr0s