Sacred Geometry...

[m1thr0s]

I want to start this thread here because it occurs to me that so-called "sacred geometry" is one of those "recurrent themes" in the human experience that must certainly qualify under Perennial Philosophy guidelines. I don't have a lot of time to sink into this at one pass so I am going to add little bits to it on-the-fly.

Basically my take on this is that human beings are a highly "symbolic" animal and we rely heavily on symbols as a means to charting our course through life. Some of us have this bug a little more pronouncedly than others and a good many of these become "occultists", almost exclusively due to the fact that occultism is where you find all the really great symbols I think.

Certain symbols...certain symbolic themes...have been around so long we don't even know where they originated exactly. One of my favorites is the "yung-drung"...a very ancient symbol from the Bon faith, dated (by some accounts) upwards to 18,000 years...though I should add that this would be a little difficult to validate. The symbol itself is, nevertheless, very very old...

http://abrahadabra.com/images/yungdrung.gif

This symbol contains the seed elements of so many other well known symbols that it would be difficult to count them all. It is, like so many sacred geometries, a symbolic depiction of whole universe itself and Man's relationship to whole universe...

So I will add to this topic as time permits and maybe others might want to add in certain ideas and examples of their own.

edit: here's another one (the Flower of Life) that we have already been discussing in other threads...also extremely old and also constituting a kind of "seed image" that may have given rise to hundreds of other well known sacred geometries...possibly even the Qabbalistic Tree of Life itself...

http://abrahadabra.com/images/fol.dkblue.jpg

There are basically two things that Alchemists like to do more than anything else in my experience...take things apart and put them together in new and unexplored ways. In a sense this is all part of "distillation" and certainly at the heart of "synthesis". One has to wonder at certain things as one goes about these kinds of processes. No matter what we come up with, it always seems as though symbols that come to be deemed "sacred" wind up having more than just a couple of things in common. Somehow these commonalities are the clue to what we are really looking for in life itself I think. So that's just a little of what I want to explore...why we keep coming up with this stuff at all and why the stuff we keep coming up with looks so similar to the stuff we have come up with before...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Back in the day...spirals were all the rage:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Newgrange_Entrance_Stone.jpg

{above: Entrance slab at Newgrange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange) (circa 3200BC) from wikipedia...}
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Vortex-street-animation.gif

Coupla spiral links:

http://spiral.gallery.sytes.org/

http://www.efn.org/~ecozma/sunergy/chiether/ABCs%20of%20spirals.html
_______________________________

MM

[m1thr0s]

I love spirals...who the hell can't relate to spirals...

excellent example MM...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

. http://www.sorath.co.uk/cocoon/sorath/images/watercymatics.png
Try cymatics, the geometry of sound in various mediums. Apparently the same shapes are available in our solar system with conjunctions between the planets. http://www.keplerstern.com/Introduction/introduction.html

[m1thr0s]

wow...this bit is bizarre...

http://www.keplerstern.com/Play_of__movements/a_MarsbeiErVeBunt.gif

Figure 2.4 Mars in relation to Venus/Earth-pentagrams (150x); from inside to outside: orbits of Venus, Earth and Mars over a total period of approx. 1195 years. The Venus/Earth pentagram is noted only once in each orbit. © Keplerstern Verlag. link (http://www.keplerstern.com/Play_of__movements/play_of__movements.html)

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Call it Magick of massive proportions :laugh:

[m1thr0s]

see...we're already off to the races here with a very powerful theory...that everything we try to express symbolically is already going on with us harmonically...all around us...everywhere we look or go...everything we touch or see etc... what makes a symbol especially "sacred" is where it succeeds at capturing one of these vital harmonic patterns...

m1thr0s

[Pagan39]

Can 'As above,so below' be put anymore succinctly?......great link,Amur,its a must have book....talk about stellar quality.
Pagan

[Amur]

see...we're already off to the races here with a very powerful theory...that everything we try to express symbolically is already going on with us harmonically...all around us...everywhere we look or go...everything we touch or see etc... what makes a symbol especially "sacred" is where is succeeds at capturing one of these vital harmonic patterns...



That's a great piece of information. Disharmonies tend to cause illnesses, whereas harmonies tend to make one more in tune, whereas the sacred is right on spot. Reminds me to keep the room tidy...

I believe that sacred geometry, is esthetically powerful to look at, whereas a being incorporated with sacred geometry would be beautiful in all senses. Perhaps this would solve the matter of getting strangled from channeling too much power into an enviroment like the western world. Don't think that the herd would attack something so beautiful. But then again by jumping too high with normal clothing, one is bound to get into all kinds of fights.

Aiming at the archetype embedded within the relationship between the human body and geometry itself should do it. Perhaps enlightenment is really turning our thoughts and other puzzle pieces into a beautiful harmonious individual geometrical figure, which in turn resonates above and below. Wild theories :cool:

[MythMath]

And of course, everbody's favorite:

http://paganandproud.bravepages.com/emeraldpent.gif(circa 3500BC)
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{graphic from link below; good Pentrivia there}

http://paganandproud.bravepages.com/The%20Pentagram%20its%20real%20history.html

[m1thr0s]

that's a pretty awful site MM...half the links don't work and the author sounds like he learned everything he knows from browsing the web and maybe half-reading what was even there at all...

sorry...but yuck...

maybe we can find something a little meatier...certainly the pentagram deserves better...

m1thr0s

[Logos]

http://a548.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/m_e7c36fcc1a833ba07392ca076a4d1013.jpg

My left arm: golden spiral, gnosis (in Greek), lead (colored yellow for gold).


http://a241.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/m_41bf8b35d3c99e3a6cecf3be33d9b8b0.jpg


My right arm: axis mundi, logos (in Greek), mercury/sulphur

Did you know that Socrates used the axis mundi to prove (for the first time historians are aware of) that we think in images?

Digital cameras rock for last minute presentations!!

v/s/s/v

[m1thr0s]

ahhhh...tatoo art. another fascinating side-tour down this road of tracking sacred symbolisms and their importance in people's lives. no other animal in this world's history would think it essential or important to literally engrave symbols into their flesh and bone...a uniquely human thing if ever there was one...

m1thr0s

[Logos]

Is it uniquely human? I saw this pitbull once with...

Yeah, I'm kind of a freak, I think, when it comes to occultists getting practical tattoos, but that's okay...

...they defintely come in handy now and then.

v/s/s/v

[Amur]

I would really love to make a scientific investigation into the art of Geometry. Got in mind various geometrical shapes, which then are made to either draw up animated along with corresponding notes and/or made Geometrical shapes to blink at a fast pace.

I'm still waiting for the oppurtunity to trip out and send geometrical pictures directly to someone to see the effect it has. Needs to be tuned. I do believe that this would have intense effect on the subject.

*crazy scientist voice* ze form ist sexuellt schöne! Let's see if this celibacy kicks off shapes someday :laugh:

[MythMath]

that's a pretty awful site MM...

sorry...but yuck...

maybe we can find something a little meatier...

certainly the pentagram deserves better...

m1thr0s

Oops, I suppose it's not very deep-level stuff...

The site had these few links that I thought had a
good (albeit basic) bit of info (essentially trivia):

http://www.sulis.net/five.htm

http://paganandproud.bravepages.com/geometry%202.html

http://www.ecauldron.com/pentagram.php

I'm still in fact-gathering mode, so I can usually get
something from these litesites, even if it's an idea
about how to graphically portray some other concept...

Or how not to...
___________________________

But maybe even the wikipedia article has better stuff...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram

Or maybe...?

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PP/index.html

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/images/PythPent-col.gif

_____________________

I'll keep delving, though, and I won't settle for any dreck...;)

MM
____________

PS - "learned everything he knows from browsing the web..." {ouch}

Does this mean I have to start reading actual books again...?

[Radiant Star]

I like this one: pentagram (http://www.rotten.com/library/occult/pentagram)

[MythMath]

Yeah, their page on Sacred Geometry is good too:

http://www.rotten.com/library/occult/sacred-geometry/

Thanks RS...

[m1thr0s]

thanks for the new links MM...w-a-y better stuff...:D

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Yeah, I agree, nice stuff brought forth MythMath!

Kain

[imagenerator]

I really enjoyed this article about pythagorean mathematics: http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta16.htm

[Kain]

Great article, I really like it myself...

Kain

[fr.novumorganum]

Is it uniquely human? I saw this pitbull once with...

Yeah, I'm kind of a freak, I think, when it comes to occultists getting practical tattoos, but that's okay...

...they defintely come in handy now and then.

v/s/s/v

I've got a unicursal hex on my right arm, a spirit sigil and an representation of nuit/hadit/horus on my left, and a backpiece of baph within a unicusral halfway done. I'll try and get some pics up.

http://www.leilawaddell.com/Leila-Waddell-pictures/liberaba.jpg

once i ge tenure i want to sleve up with the tree on one arm and this on the other

[YsetEternal]

Here is one of my tatts. I am also planning on having the Tree of Life done on the small of my back.

[Kain]

Really nice YsetEternal...I very much like that one.

fr.novumorganum: You know this image you posted is causing me some really interesting visual effects. For the first few minutes I actually thought it was a subtly animated GIF image, only to realize it is standard JPG. I don't know, could be my monitor. The colors seem to change as I look at it, the deep orange hue sucking me in...interesting and equally weird.

Kain

[Phoenix]

Im sorry for this question, but could you actualy explain what "is" the sacret geometry?

Is it related to the golden nunber?
In what way?
please develop this theme...

http://www.educ.fc.ul.pt/icm/icm99/icm17/images/Davinci.gif

Please explain what do you mean with "sacret"geometry!

PS: I am aware of the connection to the Rhind papyrus, but i would like to understand in depth the connection with the geometry of the spiral and the pentagram, is it true that the angle of each arm of the pentagram is a manifestation of the golden nunber?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Egyptian_A%27h-mos%C3%A8_or_Rhind_Papyrus_%281065x1330%29.png - The papyrus itself, Blueprint.

http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/Rhind.html

Thank you

[m1thr0s]

you need to take a little responsibility Phoenix...the term "sacred geometry" is literally all over the web and many of the posts discussing it have provided links that would serve to further explain it...

google it!

here's a fairly decent Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry

m1thr0s

[Phoenix]

you need to take a little responsibility Phoenix...the term "sacred geometry" is literally all over the web and many of the posts discussing it have provided links that would serve to further explain it...

google it!

here's a fairly decent Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry

m1thr0s

:o
Im sorry i didn´t make myself clear, i didn´t refer on the misinformation that is shared on the web i refer on the real meaning of the true golden number, and it´s connection with the sacret geometry

Let me explain, We all know that Pythagoras was somewhat responsable on the conception of the golden number, "not the sacret geometry", my question is deeper than that, Pythagorians were inspired by the ...
Pythagoras established a secret religious society very similar to (and possibly influenced by) the earlier Orphic cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus).

http://www.timelessmyths.com/classical/mysteries.html#Orphic

But what about the egipcian influence in it´s education?

http://centros5.pntic.mec.es/ies.ortega.y.rubio/Mathis/Egipto/Egipto.htm - it´s in spanish, sorry but no translation available if you want i can translate for you...

What i mean is that i believe the sacret geometry is based on the egiptian astrology and mathematics, when i hasked before before about it´s connection i was trying to locate myselfe in your combined knowledge of the matter, i already investigated this theme extensivelly, only wanted to locate comum ground.

"The discovery of the relationship of geometry and mathematics to music is attributed to Pythagoras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras), who found that a string stopped halfway along its length produced an octave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave), while a ratio of 3/2 produced a fifth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_fifth) interval and 4/3 produced a fourth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_fourth). Pythagorians believed that this gave music powers of healing, as it could "harmonize" the out-of-balance body, and this belief has been revived in modern times - another prof of the gold number

Well then here is a question worthy of you m1thr0s,
"There was a property composed on seven houses; each house has seven cats; each cat ate seven mouses; each mouse ate seven grains of cerial; each type of grain had produced seven measures of it, what is the sum of it all?

here is a hint:

http://centros5.pntic.mec.es/ies.ortega.y.rubio/Mathis/Egipto/piegip1.JPG
This is an egipcian ridle...(found on the rind papyrus)

Do you understand what i am hasking?

Do you know any information that can "prove" it´s connection, what do you think?

Another question a litle further down the same road, why did the pentagram ended up being "adopted" by "magic"?
(regardless of it´s connection with the cult of the godess.)

If i am confusing you please tell i will try to explain it better, im sorry but i have to think in a language and write in another, sometimes i end up confusing statments and gramatical rules.
( im on my 5th language already):D

All of this is to answer a simple question, when and were is the most correct and real form of belief, what information was corrupted over the ages, by the so called true religion?
This is my "quest", the reason of my compulsion.

Thank you for your understanding, and suport.

[Kain]

If i am confusing you please tell i will try to explain it better, im sorry but i have to think in a language and write in another, sometimes i end up confusing statments and gramatical rules.
( im on my 5th language already):D I had this until some years ago, so I understand your predicament here Phoenix.
Another question a litle further down the same road, why did the pentagram ended up being "adopted" by "magic"?
(regardless of it´s connection with the cult of the godess.)Well, in order to answer such questions successfully one has to better understand the nature behind sacred geomentry and it's assorted symbols. The truly powerful symbols are not "artificial" in any way and it is doubtful they were ever "created", let alone used in a specific venue. The truly powerful symbols are, meaning that they are the abstract summations of certain universal laws and phenomena, thus becoming reservoirs of power that hold the specifics of such a universal principle in a latent form. By correct application, that latent principle can be evoked in countless situations so a symbol with real substantiality/objectivity/importance is a multidimensional construct that has innumerable uses to anyone being sensitive enough to perceive it's power and apply it in temporal matters.

With this in mind, and given both the evident power of the pentagram as a symbol and the innate relationship magick has with symbolism of all kinds, the connection is almost direct. In fact one will have an extreme difficulty trying to pinpoint when the pentagram "started" being used in relation to magick, as the pentagram's properties where there from the beginning.
All of this is to answer a simple question, when and were is the most correct and real form of belief, what information was corrupted over the ages, by the so called true religion?
This is my "quest", the reason of my compulsion.Since you brought this up, I felt like expressing a viewpoint on your question as well. I personally feel that there was no set/correct manifest dogma/law/religion that has been further corrupted. There are certainly closer hits than others but what I feel has been happening from outr very "beginning" as a species is an attempt to systematize and define in temporal (and thus subjective) terms a celestial and thus objective phenomenon. Our systems/models of reality do work to an extent, some better than others of course, although we never had objective reality fully defined and pinned down until now and we are only trying to close that gap throughout these millenia of walking on two feet. It's scientific emulation work of the Universal Phenomenon in the most part, based on trial and error. So I feel our biggest ally is not the past but the present, and most importantly our instincts and intuitive impressions, as following those to the very end can (and often does) make all the defference between success and failure. So I personally feel it's an ongoing work rather than one of rebuilding something we originally possessed...

Hope you found some of this stuff useful Phoenix,

Kain

[m1thr0s]

sorry for the misunderstanding Phoenix...I appreciate the language barrier issue.

I want to stick to you first question because it's an interesting question that has a fairly "faceted" sort of answer. We can perhaps begin by looking at Wiki's definition of Sacred Geometry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry) , although I am a little disappointed in this particular presentation...but it's a start.

It is certainly fair to say that the Egyptians made extensive use of what we have come to call Sacred Geometry, both at the level of its iconography as well as its architecture. I don't think we can honestly say the Egyptians invented the whole idea though. I don't know exactly when the term Sacred Geometry first started being used but inasmuch as it typically refers to classes of symbols deemed universally harmonic at some level (and therefore worthy of a certain reverence), what we really find is that such symbols can be traced well before the birth of any civilization that we can identify. It seems to be an innately human thing to express certain "themes" geometrically.

In very ancient times we find this especially prevalent wherever humans are attempting to identify the universe itself in some way, or also attempting to define man's place in the universe, or in relation to the rest of nature. A little later on we begin to see a more precise accounting of certain geometric shapes deemed sacred for a wider range of reasons..the Golden Ratio, for instance, may have been deemed "sacred" because it was found to be a prevalent architectural theme with nature itself...it's how nature builds "strength" and "functionality" into things on many levels. People discovered that by emulating this principle they could construct very powerful structures that were both strong and also aesthetically beautiful...even "mystical" in some cases, having special acoustic qualities and so on.

So the term "sacred" gradually became more functional, denoting underlying principles in form itself which could be copied and transposed to many different kinds of situations. This is still the main context within which this term might be invoked today for a great many people.

And yet some remnant of the most ancient interpretation still lingers. We still find certain symbols venerated not so much because of their structural qualities but because they continue to inspire and ennoble us in one way or another. So I think that the term has a range of meanings and probably originates in the Mind itself as it seeks to understand itself in relation to all other things it can perceive.

That may be a little vague but I think it is essentially the most effective way to proceed to answer this kind of question.

m1thr0s

[Phoenix]

Well, i am a history student, "archeology", and i belive that there is a source.
Not just social ou political but a comun root of belife.

From the cult of the earth, to the cult of the sun, the wind, the water, etc, i think that it is like a gigantic snowball, that as to start somewhere.

Thank for those coments, they helped

[silentjohn]

http://www.the-arcturians.com/eng/index.htm

kind of neat

[m1thr0s]

interesting link silentjohn. Can't say I'm real keen on the interpretations of the symbols but it was a great little presentation...

m1thr0s

[Phoenix]

interesting link silentjohn. Can't say I'm real keen on the interpretations of the symbols but it was a great little presentation...
m1thr0s
bizarre

[Dragon]

I thought this was as good a place as any to post this. I saw a really good show on the Discovery Channel about the Tomb of Jesus, I thought about posting this in Western Tradition, but it was more the symbol over the tomb that caught my eye then anything else. Although there is compelling evidence to support this is the tomb of Yeshua's family, further research by scholars will sort out the final analysis. But what is carved in stone is this...look over the entrance to the tomb....and AHA!!!!

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20070225073000

~D~

[Ainsloch]

My right arm: axis mundi, logos (in Greek), mercury/sulphur

[SIZE=2]Did you know that Socrates used the axis mundi to prove (for the first time historians are aware of) that we think in images?

I like the axis mundi tattoo. I am curious as to whether you have seen this alchemical emblem before (attached). I have done quite a bit of research on the axis mundi but have not heard of any link to Socrates. Have you any good links or information on that? It is something I would be interested in.

[imagenerator]

Concerning the axis mundi:
One thing I noticed about it is that it is a combination of the Lingam and Yoni symbols as expounded in the Lo Shu mirrors here. Does this imply that lovemaking is at the centre of our connection to heaven and earth ? Enter the tantric yogi/yogini ...

[Ainsloch]

Concerning the axis mundi:
One thing I noticed about it is that it is a combination of the Lingam and Yoni symbols as expounded in the Lo Shu mirrors here. Does this imply that lovemaking is at the centre of our connection to heaven and earth ? Enter the tantric yogi/yogini ...

In both a symbolic sense and a literal sense lovemaking certainly represents the union of opposites. From the actual conjunction the child is born, containing an equal balance of genes from the parents. In tantra and alchemy the union of male and female is also heavlly representative of the uniting of inner soul or energy imbalances. One of my more interesting astral experiences was when I consciously projected from my sleeping body, and realised there was a second energy force with me, separate from my own, that had also left my body. I glided through the ceiling and then the roof of the house I was in, and outside was windy and rainy, quite late at night. I moved about high above the houses for a while, all the time accompanied by this energy. I felt it was time to return, and entered the house again and my room. As my consciousness returned to my body, the second energy seemed to intertwine with my own. I then had a vision of a large gold ring lying on the floor, before my body awakened. I knew that the "marriage" implied by the ring was a spiritual one, not physical, given what had just happened. Around that time I had been studying soul retrieval, a shamanic exercise to reintegrate disassociated energy, and felt that this experience, being part astral and part dream, was symbolic of my goal.

Not all of my astral experiences were quite so enjoyable however, and I would highly recommend anyone who consciously astral projects to work with visualisation techniques first to create a protective "syllable" or symbol, that will have power when carried onto the astral planes and act as armour. Otherwise it can be like going for a stroll in unfamiliar territory stark naked! You just wouldn't do it in the physical realm, yet many like I did myself make the mistake when attempting astral projection! But you live and learn.

[deviadah]

I like this thread and thought I boost it from its grave with a link. Now this stuff is probably old news to most here on AF, yet I find it so interesting.

Sacred Geometry and the Pyramids at Giza

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

I came across this article on Slashdot today. MM you definitely want to follow the link to this guy's site. There is some interesting info here.

"An anonymous reader notes a Time.com profile of Princeton University music theorist Dmitri Tymoczko, who has applied some string-theory math to the study of music and found that all possible chordal music can be represented in a higher-dimensional space (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1582330-1,00.html). His research was published last year in Science — it was the first paper on music theory they ever ran. The paper and background material, including movies, can be viewed at Tymoczko's site (http://music.princeton.edu/~dmitri/). "

http://slashdot.org/