What does the 10 of swords mean to you?

[Radiant Star]

There are some cards in a deck that people don't want to see drawn.

The 10 of swords is probably one of them.

What does this card mean to you and is there anything positive about it?

[Talkingfox]

For me it means that there is something seriously screwed in how I'm trying to bring thoughts and ideas into manifestation and that I need to reexamine in a big way. A call to step back and reevaluate is not always a negative thing, neh?

[Sibylle]

That is the most negative card to me, representing the utmost of suffering. The only way I can imagine it being positive is if it were applied to something or someone so negative that its destruction would be beneficial.

I consider the Ten of Swords to be more associated with literal death than the Death card. I can see more positive and alternate meanings in the Death card, as well.

I too would like to know if others are able to come up with positive interpretations of the Ten of Swords. Of course, all cards are interpreted in relation to the other cards in the spread, but even so, that card is alarming.

[Pagan39]

Indeed it is...its always a deep breath in for me....I used the mythic deck for years and I noticed Liz was kind enough to put a little rising sun deep in the background....y'know like...well...the situations not a good one but it is the completion of it and maybe...who knows...whats coming around could\has to be better.....lol

[feranaja]

I don't see the Ten as the image of utmost suffering; for me that would be the Nine, for a host of reasons. I've never seen physical death appear in a single card; death usually manifests in readings for me as a series of cards from which the conclusion was unavoidable. If I had died every time I drew the ten I wouldnt be here, thats for sure so I don't see it as always or even often suggesting death (not to say I'm right and Sibylle is wrong, just offering another take on it here).

Now that said, I HAVE seen the Ten indicate extreme suffering in a few cases where an incident was going to affect many people. The reading I did a moon before my brother died showed a tragedy about to occur, but it wasn't the Ten that told me that ( at the time I thought it was someone else who would die) but it DID reveal to me (in retrospect) that many people would be affected.

NOTE: I think it was Eden Gray who pointed out that the card often indicates a sort of "overkill" - it doesn't take all those swords to kill a man and thus, the Ten can indicate an overreaction, depending on how it is placed. That of course is totally the issue here. Can the Ten ever reveal something positive? Let me give a few examples of it's range:

1) In the position of the Past, it clearly shows a foundation of suffering plus the Querents reaction to it, and may offer a way to healing as the Reader opens up discussion of whatever pain it refers to.

2) In the position sometimes called "Passing Away" in the Celtic Cross or similar layout: clearly this shows a release from some oppressive situation, a lessening of the suffering (Rachel Pollack points out that the horizon may be seen as the dawn of a new era, not necessarily a sunset as it is often read, and the corpse is something the Querent needs to kill in herself.)

3) If dealing with a two-outcome, choice-centered reading and the ten shows up in one scenario, it's likely to indicate that the other choice is optimal and again open dialogue, inner or outer, regarding the situation and its pros and cons.

4) In an analytical reading, the Ten can show inner demons or a tendency to respond dramatically to situations that call for a calmer approach, much like the reversed Knights and Pages often do.

A few assorted points that I've covered when working with/teaching this card;

1) Robert Place reminds us to consider the obvious here; the card may not mean physical death but it can suggest being stabbed in the back. Look also at the man's hand in the Waite deck; its making the sign of benediction...suggesting forgiveness, perhaps the need for it?

2) Lets not forget too that the Ten of Swords is "The Lord of Ruin" in the GD system - Malkuth in Yetzirah and in that sense is indeed indicative of physical destruction. The Golden Dawn divinatory meaning thus is more physical death and affliction than how we see it developing in later commentators. Even so, we can see the Ten as a warning or a metaphor or a sign of release depending on where in the layout it appears.

3) Some questions I might think of when the Ten appears are:
What am I over reacting to? Who can I not trust, who could be back-stabbing me? Who needs me to forgive them? How could my mental attitudes be impacting on my physical health?

I cant really say the Ten is an overly welcome card except that it, like anything you pull, offers some beacon of illumination on a situation and you can often change the course of events if you talk stock of influences, external and internal, that might be heading toward something unpleasant and mulling it all over can be a start to clarity and action.


Thats probably all I should say without knowing more about context.
fera

[Pagan39]

I like the fact that with some cards theres not alot of room for a positive spin.....it is what it says it is....take notice.

A friend of mine does 'entity clearing' for a living and there was a job he had qualms about so he came over to talk about it.The pros and the cons were equally strong...so after a few hours I said 'lets look at the cards and see what they say'
It was a five card spread - he got the nine of wands, ten of swords, ace of swords, nine of swords, ten of wands.... 'it doesnt look good....let's do it again just to be sure.'
He shuffled again...got exactly same spread,same order.He didnt do the job.

[Pagan39]

Masterful exposition of the function of the ten swords,feranaja.

[feranaja]

Masterful exposition of the function of the ten swords,feranaja.


Why, thank you for saying so...:)

[Copuldaemon]

There are some cards in a deck that people don't want to see drawn.

The 10 of swords is probably one of them.

What does this card mean to you and is there anything positive about it?

Betrayal and Hell NO. Well, wait a minute, yes there is something good about it but it depends on what you do. See, say for instance you get that card, then you have to ask who can it be.
My thing is, I fu-king love the rider-waite deck because of the simplicity of it. The cards are actually archetypes in the sense of the people in your life no matter what color, smell, size, pleasurable, annoying, gassy, long term or short, they are archetypes surfacing in your head, floating around like a piece of artic ice. SO...it depends on the skills and honesty of the reader, but in this case, they're many variables.

[MythMath]

What does this card mean to you and is there anything positive about it?

My wife and I began nightly readings with each other a few
weeks ago, and the cards have been consistently favorable...

However, the 10 swords have frequently appeared... :confused:
_______________________________

One positive aspect of this card, is that
the situation won't (can't) get worse... :p

MM
________________

Mac: You've got to admit it's getting better...

Len: It couldn't get much worse...

[Radiant Star]

Some good replies, thanks to all, there is a lot to consider here.

... the 10 swords have frequently appeared... :confused:
_______________________________

One positive aspect of this card, is that
the situation won't (can't) get worse

Errr, right, thats... good news? ;)

I have run some spreads around a situation and am currently making some changes, kind of urgently :rofl:

[fr.novumorganum]

there is blockage, there is loss of balance, and there is something which must be found/rooted out and destroyed with the coldest heart of reason. Most likely something material that must be found and cut with the coldest objectivity.

[Copuldaemon]

Hmph, sounds good to me.

[feranaja]

What I neglected to say is that when a particular card is troubling in a spread - and you have a "feeling" from it - it can be helpful to re-shuffle (the remaining cards) and pull 1 - 3 for clarification on the meaning. You could ask for one card to elaborate, one to offer suggestions on advice and one on altermative routes of action...or anything that seems appropriate. If a card is worrisome or unclear to me I pull extras for further insight. It doesn't seem productive to just ponder and worry.

And action is always a good thing, when in doubt, as long as its informed action.
fera

[Naomi]

It means Death is needed but the person is resisting it and thus causing the suffering.

The only thing good about Ten of Swords is that it tells you something has GOT TO GIVE to move on to better places. When I get it I see difficulty. I only draw this card on questions about possible avenues. It tells me the path is going to require too much compromise to be worth it, usually.

So actually Death is actually a more neutral card, symbolizing either a natural change that is about to occur without a hitch or a transitional period that just needs to be waited out.

Ten of Swords is dehydrated sex without lube.

[m1thr0s]

I don't know...I refuse to believe that any of the elemental cards have inherently negative properties personally...I just think it's a load of crap...good element, bad element, give me a break. Will people never learn that Crowley was a religious fanatic pooling from a world of religious fanatics? That doesn't mean he wasn't also a genius, but his genius is stained with heavy doses of predjudicial thinking...

One of the things to keep in mind is that small card titles have run amok over time. In the old tradition these titles were always called *The Lord of...* or *The Lady of...* whatever word would then follow. So in the case of Ruin (10-Swords) the old title would have been called *The Lord of Ruin*. This is important to understand because there are both dignified and ill-dignified aspects to all of the elemental cards. On the plus side, The Lord of Ruin can be the epitome of worldly experience...a type of wisdom capable of reading defeat long before it hits and successfully side-stepping it...

I hate lazy-ass stereotypes...In India Ganesha is called *The Lord of Obstacles* and people just love Ganesha...don't you think it would distort things rather drastically to just start calling him *Obstacles*? This is precisely what has occurred with respect to Small Card valuations... The thing to do is to develop the habit of determing whether cards are "dignified" or "ill-dignified" before attempting to define their meaning in a given situation... One can easily do this by employing a "crossing" card or using a spread that already does this for you. You can also employ another system like Runes or I Ching etc that will do this also.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Well there's a good point.

[m1thr0s]

Tarot is one of those things that isn't taught very well in books alone. I started out from all this stuff too but after I had run literally hundreds, maybe thousands of readings I started noticing things in the cards themselves. Another trick for dealing with this whole dignified/ill-dignified business is to deliberately spin you cards around so some will come out face up and others upside down. So you shuffle & spin and then go to the reading. Upside down cards can then be understood to be ill-dignified...just another little option.

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

On the plus side, The Lord of Ruin can be the epitome of worldly experience...a type of wisdom capable of reading defeat long before it hits and successfully side-stepping it...

I understand why I got this card so many times over the last month now; I even know the kind of situations that are putting me in the line of ruin. It is abundantly clear and has been shown to me before in ritual, same message, same issue I need to watch out for.

Very helpful posts m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Another trick for dealing with this whole dignified/ill-dignified business is to deliberately spin you cards around so some will come out face up and others upside down. So you shuffle & spin and then go to the reading. Upside down cards can then be understood to be ill-dignified...just another little option.


I don't reverse the cards myself, don't see the point, you pick what you pick. Plus you can't reverse normal playing cards, so I don't know where this trend comes from originally

[m1thr0s]

"normal playing cards" aren't designed for doing tarot readings, to begin with, and you are missing your Major Arcana Cards, minimally (also Court Cards are incomplete).

it's true can you can adapt anything to anything if you put your mind to it. It isn't true that everything is as good as the next for the purpose it was designed for. A garbage pail makes an adequate drum if you have no other...that doesn't make it a proper drum.

there simply is no such thing as a universally "bad" elemental card...that's the whole point. I don't use reversals either but I always look for dignified/ill-dignified indicators simply because it makes my readings more accurate.

the idea of checking *aspecting* has been around forever...that's the whole point behind a *crossing card* at your querant position...it tells you something about its aspecting. It's built right into many spreads but with others you need to run extra steps to get this. I am not saying anybody has to use this of course. I am saying it opens up a much broader kind of dialogue.

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

"normal playing cards" aren't designed for doing tarot readings, to begin with, and are missing your Major Arcana Cards, minimally.

it's true can you can adapt anything to anything if you put your mind to it. It isn't true that everything is as good as the next for the purpose it was designed for. A garbage pail makes an adequate drum if you have no other...that doesn't make it a proper drum.



I was under the impression that playing cards and the minor arkana are one and the same thing, seeing as they're identical. I'm sure you know that there are plenty of reading styles where there is no need to mix major and minor. So how do you find ill/dignified cards without reversing?

[Anibis]

The attributions of the minor cards is part of what led to these titles. Basically, starting in Aries (1st decan), The G:.D:. attributed 'Mars', then following the order 'Mars Sun Venus Mercury Moon Saturn Jupiter...(etc)'(as per the Tree of Life/Platonic order) they attributed the planets to the decanates (10 degree segments of the Zodiac) and thus all 36 minor arcana were developed by an algorythm. The four Aces are in a class of their own, along with the four princesses. The problem is that the 7 classical planets do not divide evenly into the 36. As a consequence the first Card, the 'Two of Wands' is Mars in Aries and the last card, 'the Ten of Cups' is Mars in Pisces. Mars doubles up here in a way that I at least find inelegant. Since the meaning of these cards is properly elemental, I would think that determining a 'cleaner' method of attribution would be worthwhile. I am with M1thr0s in that I think it is better to decompose the symbol into its elements and then deduce the meaning rather than accept the conventional title names as being authoritative.
-Ibisis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

The attributions of the minor cards...

One thing that bugs me when I buy a new pack is finding that the author has decided to make his/her own astrological equations, especially with the Major Arkana. Why o why must they tinker with these things? If anyone has a definitive and traditional version of the Astrologic connections of the Major Arkana it would be most welcome. Another simular variant is the position of the Justice card.

[Anibis]

Oh boy, I tinker ALL the time. But I think it makes for better engineering. Best position for the Justice card is IMO at XI, and strength at IIX.
-Ibisis

[m1thr0s]

I'm sure you know that there are plenty of reading styles where there is no need to mix major and minor. So how do you find ill/dignified cards without reversing?oh sure...and I have played around with lots of other decks. I think it's a good idea to become versed in different kinds of systems. Without using *reversals*, the most natural thing to do is to use *crossing* cards, or use a spread that already gives you aspecting based on opposite positioning...

I sort of like the Celtic Cross system so I often use *crossing* cards in that spread. If I am doing a serious reading for someone I also employ different spreads. You can use the Tree of Life as a spread system for instance that gives you very specific Tree information. You can also use an astrological spread that gives you *house* information. You can also use the Tetractys and on and on...there's all kinds of ways to approach readings really...(magical squares are a gas)...since I am also versed in I Ching and assorted geomantic divination tools, I will often use these in tangent with a traditional Tarot reading.

Note: A very simple but potent system is to use the Lo Shu Square. Since the 9 principle ternary bigrams already comprise an historical *portent* properties, you can draw a bigram for each card in position. Combined systems like this are very powerful and also allow for the subject to be more intimately involved since they should be the ones actually tossing the coins or dice or stalks or whatever you would be using to get your line values...(I use a dice system personally)

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I not only keep the two arkanas seperate, I also keep the suits seperate, but then I'll only be using 3-5 cards from the Major and 1 card at a time from the Minor. I don't do conventional readings, and a proper full card layout would just be too much information to be of practical benefit to me. That's just the way my mind works. I dont do the normal divination either because 99 times out of 100 it will just be for me, and either my own desired outcome will make the reading ineffective, or the card(s) will repeat pointing out a present and immediate situation, not something in development or in the near future. Like I mentioned on another thread, I pretty much use them as you (m1thr0s) use mirrors, and for scrying.

[m1thr0s]

yeah...and this is where we enter into heavy subjectivity waters. It would be stupid to try to tell anybody how to do readings that already knows how, or else already has a system that works for them. Since we are dealing in a dialogue with *higher genius* here anyway, the rules are really just a sort of guidelines that won't always apply in all situations. Still, it is my nature to challenge stereotypes when I encounter them...particularly if they seem to have gone unchallenged at all (which many of them somehow manage to do)...

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

It's good for robbing graves and the associated symbolic cross-reference fields thereof: taking things from the underworld, mainly. But, to do that, you gotta go to that space, which most people don't like, cuz it's got cobwebs and scary stuff like that.

I find it easiest to 'bind' tarot cards to expressing as you'd liek them to: one of the pieces of Low Magick I did back in 2005 (did only 4 peices total approx then, each quite big) was to shred all the tarot cards i didn't like, then mix them with alcohol and cast them in the fire, and also add two more cards of my own design to the remaing pack, to give a total of 52 cards just like playing cards...

Less possibilities in terms of path scenarios, but that suited me fine too...

Where the card/symbolism still exists, it is easiest and most useful to use its own inherent nature to bind it. In this case that would mean to see it as representing Ten Swords and nothing more than that. Bind that by wlkaing into a sword shop and going 'Ah, yes, I see the symbolism of life and the grand harmony of the synchronicity of it all now!" Life's funny like that...

Regards,
Oazaki.

[Anibis]

Hmm... I use the regular 52 fold deck all the time. Sometimes people ask me for readings with it, and I give them. It works very well, I'd say, people find it very enlightening. Trouble with reading Tarot for me has always been how picky I am about my geometrics. I don't like reading cards for people whose underlying structure (that of the cards) is unsound. Mostly when I divine, I use the IChing and the Tai Hsuan Ching, myself... Tarot is mostly for energywork...
-Ibisis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I like to use the coelbrenni (lots) based on the ogam, and used a flickr account to create a divination tool. It's all in Welsh, but Im quite proud about inventing it, and it could be used for other systems.

1.Go to my Welsh blogazine e-clectig (http://e-clectig.blogspot.com/)
2. Down on the left hand column you'll see a thumbnail photo from flickr.com.
This image is randomnly generated from a total of 80 different possibilities. Click on it for your ogam lot , you'll be directed to the flickr account where you'll find underneath the photo the interpratation of the lot's meaning, consisting of one or two short sentences.
Like I say, it's all in Welsh. I can translate, but the point is that the idea's sound
The ogam coelbrenni consists of 20 trees and bushes, each with four directions, giving a total of 8o outcomes

[Sibylle]

What does this mean?

mae'r moddion i gynnal bywyd gweddus yn dy ddwylo di

Neat idea :)

[Ci Celli Ddu]

What does this mean?

mae'r moddion i gynnal bywyd gweddus yn dy ddwylo di

Neat idea :)

The means to maintain a good living are in your hands

[m1thr0s]

great photos...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I found this website recently on another search which details the ten of swords extravagantly:

http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/tenswords.htm

M1thr0s does the idea of "Lord of Ruin" originate with the Golden Dawn or before that?

What you said about not using normal playing cards is interesting. I have used these in the past in scarce circumstances and they seemed to work but it was difficult for me to remember the numerology and correspondences. In my readings today I learned that the major arcana were added later, yet the elements were dubbed according to this article, 'lesser secrets' and the major arcana 'greater secrets'. In your opinion is this true or not?

[Sibylle]

Thanks for that one, Naomi. I like seeing the various renderings of the same card, and it looks like a great site.

[m1thr0s]

M1thr0s does the idea of "Lord of Ruin" originate with the Golden Dawn or before that?no...much older than that actually...that stuff goes all the back into the gypsy decks and so on...

In my readings today I learned that the major arcana were added later, yet the elements were dubbed according to this article, 'lesser secrets' and the major arcana 'greater secrets'. In your opinion is this true or not?It rings true at least in part but I'm going to have to check a few resources myself. I read through the entire Encylopedia of Tarot at one point (5 volume set) and who knows how many other things as well but I've been totally out of practise for awhile. It seems to me that the Atu actually have their roots in the Pylons of Egypt though which may have numbered 20 (?) instead of 22...I'll need to dig all that stuff out again...A lot of older decks have 72 cards or less though...

You can only destroy just so many brain cells at once and I've been steeped in tons of other stuff...time to review this good old ground again...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

Just as I thought this card had done its deed. It reappeared.

It reappeared a few times over a couple of days, this time I have a pretty clear idea why, in fact, there are probably three separate reasons why and I was reminded of a saying I saw recently "No good deed goes unpunished" for one of them.

When I really thought about it, I could see the card as telling me the final outcome in a couple of issues I either couldn't see clearly enough to make a good choice at the time, or issues that I held out hope for that were probably always going to fail.

I have come to realize that the brutal closing of a door leaves me free to choose other ways forward.

All is not lost, it only looks like it is.

Not such a terrible card after all.

[MythMath]

Plus, wouldn't it be cool to actually have TEN SWORDS...? ;)

[Radiant Star]

Plus, wouldn't it be cool to actually have TEN SWORDS...? ;)
Yes, org... errr, very happy indeed :D

Which kind of takes me onto thinking about the 2 of cups which crops up 90% of the time when I ask about something and has done continuously for the last six months...

... but thats another thread

[Naomi]

Yes, org... errr, very happy indeed :D

Which kind of takes me onto thinking about the 2 of cups which crops up 90% of the time when I ask about something and has done continuously for the last six months...

... but thats another thread

Brain hemispheres?