Contact with other Selves?

[Lucian]

In moments of very intense emotion or desire I have experienced a sort of "possession" by something I can only describe as being another Self. She feels separate and alien, yet at the same time I know that she is me. Probably more me than I am. A higher Self, perhaps?

When she comes, she seems to sort of "step in" or "step up" within me and for a brief moment we are one and her self overwhelms the weaker, more insubstantial or "younger" self I seem to be. I am her, yet I am also observing her and feeling her.

She is a mature woman, and she has been here a very, very, very long time. She is ancient. Timeless. She has no patience at all for the trivial things I have to deal with in my day to day life. I sense her as a warrior - an assassin - but also like a demigod or daemon. She is somewhat cold, merciless, and business like about everything - even the ways in which she takes pleasure. She's cold, yet fiery and passionate about her own existence. When she's here I know what it's like to actually be Darkness. I feel my whole being grow Dark and power just rush through me. She can see things and know things I cannot, and occasionally she'll "step in" so that she can reveal something I had no way of seeing from where I am. I will know it with her for a moment, then she'll fade back and I'll be left with her revelation. She's incredibly powerful, absolutely sovereign, and as Left-Hand Path as you can get.

She "steps in" for lust, for vengeance, knowledge, and self empowerment so far - but she seems to avoid sorrow, guilt, self pity, fear and things that seem to weaken in general.

And oddly enough she only does this when I am mostly awake. Once she stepped in and actually moved my body while I was talking to someone. She never, ever takes no for an answer - from anyone. When I dream I sometimes dream of being her, but it's not quite the same.

She visited very recently. I woke up with her already here, we spent some time thinking of something she had seen, we made a decision of what to do, and then she withdrew.

I don't know what she is and to be honest I don't care. She is me, and I want her to "step in" more. She is the ideal I've carried with me since I was born. Maybe this is the HGA. I don't know.

What I was curious about is,

Does anyone else here experience something similar? If you do, have you done anything to try to initiate contact?

I'm pretty sure she'd just laugh at me if I started reciting Liber Samekh at her. :laugh:

Your thoughts?

[m1thr0s]

it's obviously a little dangerous for anyone else to speculate on something like this Lucian but it's not at all unheard of. She is more likely to be some sort of goddess form than the HGA per se, although, in truth, many things can assume that role...it's just not the same thing for everyone.

I personally think you are probably right regarding Liber Samekh etc...or any of the "little libers" for that matter...and yet you probably will want to do something to harness her strengths a little better. Naturally my inclination is almost always to recommend Body of Light work as a starting point to anything more provocative or potentially risky. If she's on your side, she can't object to anything you do to strengthen the Body of Light itself.

So...while I am not really sure what she is, the fact that she persists is an important factor in itself. Whoever or whatever she may be, she's definitely interested in you so you need to continue to explore it...without pursuing it too much, or too directly. There should not be allowed to exist any dichotomy between you. She can't be the smart one while you get to be the dumb one...she can't be the strong one while you get to play the weak one etc. All of that sort of thing needs to be merged or the situation can potentially become a problem. Again, Body of Light work is a good solution to this as it consolidates without confrontation. If she were to object to you getting stronger and smarter yourself, you would obviously have a problem but I very much doubt that this would be the case.

It's always nice, I think, to have some kind of "edge" to work around.

I do have such a character myself, though he seems to change hats periodically. I have referred to this before. I assigned him an alchemical name at one point. You will find me referring every now and then to I.'.I.'.I.'.I...dangerous cat...my dark and secret genius I think...dark star to be sure...sometimes it helps to sort out the name.

m1thr0s

[feranaja]

I've pulled through two distinct characters at times of great stress - one, I identified as Andraste, the great Irish warrior Goddess and patron of Queen Boudicca - she literally threw my abusive ex husband across the room and then smashed the hell out of the house with a practise sword I had lying around. The ex never hit or attacked me physically again...he was scared to LOOK at me for a while after that event.

At that time I was doing a ton of Wiccan work, focusing on Invocation particularly although my chosen pantheon was Greek and I worked with Aphrodite, Hecate, Artemis mainly...never a Celt at that time.

It's good to have Irish battle deities on your side. I had never made any attempt to contact Her prior to that, but, we've been friendly ever since. The odd time I erupt out of normal pleasant civilized-feranaja mode and seem to have a shift in character, that can be Her presence, She doesn't suffer fools gladly. I know some people would think this is just schizy, but those same people will turn around and tell you they invoked Dionysus last week and hung out at a local winebar. I had witnesses to the husband throwing event - I am 5'7 and fine boned, he was 6'2 , wiry but strong and a real piece of work.

The other entity I can bring out is my good friend M_____. We could PM about this. Nuhad saw me through a very difficult time when I was living in extreme isolation and - very clever, this - doing occult work in a nearly frenzied fashion, I mean what else do you do when youre living alone on a rocky outcropping somewhere in the North Atlantic? You evoke stuff, right? lol...well I got rather more than I bargained for, and this entity reminds me of yours, although she was not avoidant of things like sorrow etc, she was fully integrated emotionally and neither Left nor Right Hand Path - in fact there was a deep sorrow in Her and I thought of Her for a while as a manifestation of Binah...but she has been there for me ever since and one of the reasons I think I've survived so many psychic attacks and so much astral idiocy (my own and others, lol). She pulls me back to my depths and grounds me; she takes care of intruders; She both is and is not, me...if that made any sense.

Very cool that this is happening to you as well - it's unnerving but you will get used to it.

fera (no I do not now nor have I ever been on - or off - 'meds' lol )

[Kazahel]

Does anyone else here experience something similar? If you do, have you done anything to try to initiate contact?

I have experienced something similar too I think. I think of her as like my girlfriend now though.. I figured that she likes me more when I'm single and just for her. So I am. She steps in all the time over certain things or when I'm after her side of it all kinda. Sometimes she comes in my dreams to kiss me... like she will just kiss my lips so softly as to make me feel loved and its the most wonderful feeling. It's only ever a single kiss though and nothing more but the feelings around those dreams are amazing because its like being kissed by an angel. She actually came to me again in my dreams last night and kissed me that single kiss. I tried to run my hand up her leg this time out of habit kinda(because of what she wore)but she slapped it away and said no because she was a virgin. Then she was gone and people were asking if I loved her but I dont remember much more. Her appearance changes but the feelings around her doesnt.

I guess I think of her as Ariel in female form.. but it does feel maybe like the HGA.. Im not sure.

To initiate contact I listen to music I guess... usually it doesnt take much to get contact.. but some days I feel she isnt around at all and I just have to wait.

[m1thr0s]

this is really an interesting topic to me because I think in all the years I have moderated or otherwise participated in magickal discussions with people from all over the world, I have probably encountered at least hundreds of people who have been drawn to occultism...in part...because of some kind of persistent phenomenum they are trying to sort out...very often revolving around the presence of some kind of being or beings that they are at least periodically in touch with.

And I have often wondered...is this something relatively new or has it been going on all along with people? I rather think it's been going on all along but people are better able to identify that phenomenum now in less "religious" ways than they seem to have done in the past...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

And I have often wondered...is this something relatively new or has it been going on all along with people? I rather think it's been going on all along but people are better able to identify that phenomenum now in less "religious" ways than they seem to have done in the past...I've noticed this myself and I always interpreted it the same way actually.

As for me, this sort of thing has occured to me as well and in the past used to be a lot more "foreign" and possessive. As my work continued and I began to tap it all the more consciously and integrate it in my system, I've noticed that it has become an aspect of myself, a highly rarefied anatomical co-ordinate of my own body that however is too subtle to be able to have direct contact with all the time although I feel it's resonance and can interract with it in an intuitive fashion when in deeper trance states etc. . I have personally classed it as "personal genius".

Kain

[Naomi]

Lucian no one can really tell you exactly what it is but I'll give you my opinion or rather, my intuition.

I think it's probably just another facet of yourself, but there's this barrier there you'll have to dig out to get to feeling like yourself again. A barrier made of various debris you've gathered over the years, from parents, the bad crap humanity heaps upon us in their systems they've built and everything else that this stupid world of shit monkeys likes to encourage.



I can't remember the last time I was really afraid. I don't even remember what it feels like.

But hey I just read your post again and you said it yourself:

" I don't know what she is and to be honest I don't care. She is me, and I want her to "step in" more."

and the mako shark is like "Yeah wheee!"

http://www.thetengu.com/Abrahadabraforumsposts/makoshark.jpg

[Copuldaemon]

Lucian, I don't know if you believe in reincarnation but perhaps this lady is actually your soul and I tend to think that spirits have no anatomical parts or nature (that's only fleshly territory) but the aspect of her being a female is a symbolic way of telling you how patient she is of whatever it is that she's waiting for.
I think you're split son, and this barrier could be your spiritual caul that ensure you as your identity (all things accumilated in this round of life) and it protects you but blinds you or separtateds due to the law of nature.
You're split as in you are actually in contact with your true self. I wouldn't be afraid for if you feel like it's you and more complete then you can only get stronger.
I ENCOURAGE you to communicate with yourself more. Perhaps you want a chocolate bunting cake but failed in many lifetimes for whatever reasons to obtain it, yet, thanks to technology, you can have chocolate anything, but perhaps you'll fail this round, thus being yet another novelty the gods.
Those beings that are so multi-dimensional that we can barely understand their gripes, and yet do we dare understand their humor no matter how cruel or indifferent?
I ENCOURAGE you to face yourself duke, draw a sigil or whatever it is and do and see what happens and please share.
This is more surprising than learning johnny gil staying in eddie murphys guest house.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Andraste, the great Irish warrior Goddess and patron of Queen Boudicca

Steady, Fera. Andraste is a Native Briton. Morrigu is her Irish incarnation ;)

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I always think of my other self as, well, me on some other level. I think of him as a guardian, and he only turns up when needed, without any conscious machinations on my part. On those occasions when I was on the road and found myself caught out in the cold, he would converse with me so that although Id get some kind of sleep Id also remain semi-conscious. On waking I'd wander where he'd got to, and after a moment of disorientation I'd realise he had not been a real person. There have been moments of extreme emotional turmoil where I ended up sleepwalking, and on one occasion found myself hanging from a flimsy and soon to break retractable/folding washing line/rack four floors above certain concrete death (I was looking for a toilet). My other self, my "sleeping self" or whatever took control and calmly returned me to safety. My waking self only became aware of what had happened the following morning, though I could remember clearly everything (normally you don't remember sleepwalking experiences unless someone interacts with you). In short I wouldn't call this other me a Soul (that word is meaningless to me), perhaps Me outside of Myself?

[Okazaki Castle]

Hey fera, cool tale! I would so like to have been there to see you doing that. Working with a sword too, I mean, how cool is that? Knew there was a reason you were a fiery redhead... And never took you to be just the 'caring fera' stereotype that I think a lot of people get off you...


Does anyone else here experience something similar?

Oh yeah. I always had three main characters hanging around in the background myself: The Japanese, The Dragon and Venus. They'd mainly just 'oversee' and alter the energies in my spheres if they deemed it necessary. Wasn't entirely sure what it was when younger, but looked into it in later life and figured a few things out. None of them are properly me though in the sense in which I'd consider my own self-identity. Nevertheless, I do live them occasionally. Venus, for example, likes to smoke ganga and is willing to do foreplay on grils for me. She's very good at it and can be bothered... :yes: :laugh:

My own self and character is also there though. Sometimes I fetch thru past lives. Othertimes I fetch thru whole other aspects of myself which don't properly belong in this system. Sometimes the character is close enough to what I call 'Sebastian form/personality' to not look or behave too different and so not arouse any suspicions really. Sometimes this is not at all the case. The harshest form I have used is probably my Lord of Dark Khaos form. You feel the power radiating off me when I do that one, and I behave in extreme ways and would think nothing of tearing a person limb from limb. My face changes also, and the eyes. I use it when necessary, but not often.

Generally I approach any scenario from the best character to move that scenario with. There's an overall stability to the process in that they're all me (with a very few exceptions, like the three covered above) with the same or very similar desires, value structures, approaches, etc. Just 'put together differently'. In the same way that one's past lives are all recognisably 'you'.

One interesting aside on this. In 2002 I was in India and doing some hardcore clearing very, very rapidly. Had correlate physical effects, eg a high fever. This all took me to the stage where I couldn't actually physically get up off the bed as my form was too empty of energy to stand up without getting light-headed and feinting if I didn't lie down soon again. But I had to get moving so I brought thru into my form another entity who lived thru me, walking thru town and doing what needed to be done then getting on the bus and leaving. The increased energy and presence of another soul system filled up the physical vehicle enough to allow for that in relative ease and comfort.

Now, I think that is similar to what fetching thru these other characters or apsects of our own selves allows for. You can put yourselves in situations beyond your normal this-life ability set and the other character provides what is needed to satsify the demands of that situation.

Generally, if I was to giove any advice it would be to sit back and learn from the entities who do come thru you. Usually they've got very good approaches, skills and ways of doing things to teach. Then reintegrate those things learnt into your own being, voila upgraded ability set.

On the quaetsion of 'Who am I?' which will begin to arise when you play with this sort of stuff a lot. Simply relax. 'Whatever' is a good answer there I find. Why bother looking and searchjing after a while, we can attend to such philosphical questions after system decomission or something, when it's easier and can be handed to us on a plate...

Incidentally, Lucian, I find this post of yours very, very interesting. Who's the War Goddess? And the other one? No need to reply to those questions if you don't feel comfortable doing so... ;)

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Okazaki Castle]

On this topic:

In a well-known quote from the introduction to The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell wrote:

"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."

http://press.princeton.edu/images/k7803.gif

Regards all,
Oazaki.

[feranaja]

Thank you Oazaki. I have a deep wellspring of concern and responsiveness to others running through me, and I believe we are all responsible to one another - it's something I've felt from the time I was very little, I'd go so far as to say I've "known" it.. And when people behave badly I tend to try and understand, commiserate even - but everyone has limits. I owe it to my pack to defend when i have to. And I had tried for a decade with that individual to help him get past his violence, anger issues etc - then one day something in me just...said..no...and allowed Herself to come in.

That was 18 years ago, though. I have far less trouble standing up for myself these days. I'm as fierce as I am loyal; fortunately, very few will ever see the ferocity since it takes a serious amount of idiocy to piss me off. I mean you have to work at it!
BUt I'm definitely the type to lift a car off a child pinned underneath it. You dont have to be physically huge and loud to be strong; you have to be fierce.

I used to regret having Mars in Aries, but I've lived to be very grateful for it.

Now I'll return to handing our herbal remedies, Tarot suggestions, and dog food recipes.
fera

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Ah, now this is very interesting, and is the best self explanation of and introduction to OC that I've as yet encountered. Kudos. I can also relate to it personally:

Oh yeah. I always had three main characters hanging around in the background myself: The Japanese, The Dragon and Venus. They'd mainly just 'oversee' and alter the energies in my spheres if they deemed it necessary. Wasn't entirely sure what it was when younger, but looked into it in later life and figured a few things out. None of them are properly me though in the sense in which I'd consider my own self-identity. Nevertheless, I do live them occasionally. Venus, for example, likes to smoke ganga and is willing to do foreplay on grils for me. She's very good at it and can be bothered... :yes: :laugh:
I became aware of it at a very early age, though of course being aware is not the same as understanding.


Sometimes I fetch thru past lives.

I am the incarnation of my ancestors. Theirs are the past lives I fetch through. This has a particularly strong resonance for my magic here in Western Europe, because from that angle I was here first and can, if necessary, tell others to get off my land. Very useful for exorcising entities that are under 30,000 years of age.


Othertimes I fetch thru whole other aspects of myself which don't properly belong in this system. Sometimes the character is close enough to what I call 'Sebastian form/personality' to not look or behave too different and so not arouse any suspicions really.

I find it is easier when abroad. People generally allow foreigners to have some eccentricities.


Sometimes this is not at all the case. The harshest form I have used is probably my Lord of Dark Khaos form. You feel the power radiating off me when I do that one, and I behave in extreme ways and would think nothing of tearing a person limb from limb. My face changes also, and the eyes. I use it when necessary, but not often.

Mine's a Werewolf.


Generally I approach any scenario from the best character to move that scenario with. There's an overall stability to the process in that they're all me (with a very few exceptions, like the three covered above) with the same or very similar desires, value structures, approaches, etc. Just 'put together differently'. In the same way that one's past lives are all recognisably 'you'.

Now, I think that is similar to what fetching thru these other characters or apsects of our own selves allows for. You can put yourselves in situations beyond your normal this-life ability set and the other character provides what is needed to satsify the demands of that situation.


Well put. This reflects my views. It's also a core element to Chaos Magick.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Now I'll return to handing our herbal remedies, Tarot suggestions, and dog food recipes.
fera

An interesting mix. :D

[Little Billy]

Does anyone else here experience something similar? If you do, have you done anything to try to initiate contact?


I found myself shopping in La Mexicana Chiquita Supermercado last night, trying to find fresh habanero peppers for that lousy Tongan. He had been keeping me up all night, bellowing about this year's America's Cup race, and about the future of American football. The only possible cure was to chow down on insanely hot peppers until he was beaten into submission, thus allowing me to get a couple of hours of precious sleep.

Nothing stands out in an almost empy supermarket like Little Billy, especially when he's stuck halfway in Chef mode. Hideous...a bone-weary 220 pound gringo, shuffling down the aisles, mumbling things about "teef" and "baggies" and the Chicago Bears...all the while dragging a 20 pound authentic war club. In any civilized country, I'd be beaten by cops and thrown in jail, for my own good.

However, I am not in a civilized country, and the locals know me. For good or for ill, they are my people, and they are more than willing to put up with my eccentricities...as just about everyone in Tucson, AZ is eccentric, or a gang-banger, or both.

Tucson is America in microcosm...at least the America that SHOULD exist. 75% hard-working weirdos, and 25% goons, thugs, and preachers. Almost everyone carries a gun, at least at 2 AM, but the level of violence is surprisingly low...and people are polite. They understand, you see, that it is bad policy to be rude to someone, when there is a very good chance that the person you are speaking to is armed to the teeth with pistols that have their serial numbers filed off.

Chef wasn't enjoying himself much. The ranchero music being piped into the store was too loud, he said, and accordians always set him off. No time for niceties, now...what if he goes berserk, and starts smashing speakers? It's not out of the realm of possibility...So, grab a jar of peppers, and dump it down your throat.

Instant sweat. The inability to breathe. Spots in front of your eyes, and some freakish little clerk staring at you like you're insane. Fuck him, he doesn't understand, does he? "Listen, snapperhead...I AM going to pay for this, but there simply isn't time." But it doesn't come out that way, does it? Not with an esophagus full of screaming hot habaneros...it sounds more like "UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGH!"

I could see the horror in his eyes...he began to back away, toward the front of the store. Toward the phone. The situation is hopeless...I will NOT be able to explain myself to a cop, at least not while I'm in this condition. There's only one thing to do...

...Run through the door into the meat department, heading for the back door, where they put the garbage out. Slip on a freshly-mopped floor, and go skidding along the stainless steel table where they are cutting the meat for tomorrow...half a dozen Mexicans scramble to get out of the way...covered in blood now, bovine, I hope...there were some sharp fucking knives on that table...Out the back door, and running down the street...a hideous, blood covered maniac toting a war club...people in cars, staring at me as I run through the night...

...Back to mi casa, lock the door. Don't answer the door, don't answer the phone. There are animals out there, you know...it just isn't SAFE.

Or kill me.

[Okazaki Castle]

Almost everyone carries a gun, at least at 2 AM, but the level of violence is surprisingly low...and people are polite. They understand, you see, that it is bad policy to be rude to someone, when there is a very good chance that the person you are speaking to is armed to the teeth with pistols that have their serial numbers filed off.



Yes :yes: :yes: Noticed the same thing in South Africa. Generally when most everybody is heavily armed most everybody is also exceedingly polite and helpful. This is a true fact of human nature it seems.

Thus, to elevate cultural standards of behaviour, I think everybody needs to be armed again on a daily, in-public basis. Would have other, secodary benefits too...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Kuroyagi]

I have also noticed that if everybody carries guns people may be extremely polite but also extremely paranoid hypocritical and shallow.

I have encountered some similar phenomena too, of course. Im a major invoker and thereby can relate to what Oazaki wrote. One of my "rituals" if it can be called that, lasted for about half a year. In this time I was living on automatic, I was living in another world and the only connection to this one was what I wrote. This is hardcore-XM stuff for sure but from a certain perspective all we do all we live is a ritual in this sense: to "delude" oneself into a certain lifestyle or paradigm and then banish it resepectively "wake up" from it again (unto another one). The only difference to the normal guys on the street is that it is much more directed by ourselves, much more intentional while others' lives are more socially/morally (etc.) influenced; thats why "deconditioning" is important at first. (a good book on deconditioning is eg The Enchiridion by the Roman slave Epiktetus: http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/mirror/classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html,)

But I also encountered what Lucian said. In times of extreme elevation or stress everyone can access this "higher self": a self that is much more myself than myself. :P. Yes there is the eternal self and the this-life one, the timebound. I also have deep ancestral connection for which I sometimes feel responsible- or they ask me about something (cause the dead have to rely on the living for info sometimes otherwise they cant develop). yes, we are the spearhead of transcendence and consciousness development and those other selves or whatever one wishes to call them expect a lot form us. They also help us out- one major part of occult training is to establish some functional connection and some efficient communication with them so that they can jump in or take over when one needs it.

[Little Billy]

I have also noticed that if everybody carries guns people may be extremely polite but also extremely paranoid hypocritical and shallow.


Underneath this shallow exterior lies an enormous lack of character, sir.

[MythMath]

LB,

Your stuff is very HST-esque...

Thanx for the larfs...

MM

[Little Billy]

LB,

Your stuff is very HST-esque...

Thanx for the larfs...

MM

Um, yeah, now that you mention it.

Upon reading it again, I kept thinking, "GOD HELL! GIVE ME MORE ETHER!"

He and Ivan Stang are my biggest two influences, but I'm not nearly in the same league as they are.