How Important is Astrology?

[feranaja]

Something I've noticed a fair bit in the occult world is otherwise very serious practitioners who somehow deplore or ignore astrology. Now I understand, there has been a terrible dumbing-down of the riches of astrological insight, in this case popularization is not a good thing. I think we sometimes skip over astrology when we need to delve more deeply into it as part of a well rounded magickal knowldeg base. My question is, how important is the study of astrology to you as a Witch/magician/occultist? For me it's been very central, although I have not taken it to the level of a practising specialist. I continue to study and incorporate astrology into my daily life, decision making process, self understanding and timing fo rituals, for the most obvious examples. It's a lot ot learn but has paid huge dividends for me on all those levels.

What about you?
fera

[Kain]

Well, I have primarilly accustommed myself to it due to it's ramiffications as a base 12 alchemical system so my approach has been very abstract and I have very superficially concerned myself with the actual effects in a defined time frame and on a particular individual. I have friends that have been studying astrology for years and gleaning immensely accurate information from it, however it is a field that never really drew me, apart from it's abstract ramiffications that I described earlier. I generally feel lost with interpreting such data through my intellective mind, usually helping more in adding a sense of paranoia in my thought processes rather than endow me with useful knowledge and initiative. I have also tried interpreting them through altered states, although from the viewpoint of the highest vantage they look elementary and sometimes even trivial or partially erroneous, as I already 'know' these things and am "dancing through and around them". Of course, I cannot claim my "higher genious" 's viewpoint as my own although I feel I opperate better by aligning to it directly at any given moment and acting upon it's resonance rather than trying to intellectively draw meaning on my temporal whereabouts out of temporal signs that need a "decryption" of sorts. I can certainly see how others can find it useful though, although it seems to just not do it for me personally, at least not in this fashion.

Hope that made some sense,

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I try to stay abreast of Astrology as well as possible without diving headlong into it. There's only just so many brain cells and just so many hours in a day etc. I find Astrology extremely time-intensive, particularly owing to the enormous discrepancies we find in different camps etc. Then we have the additional fact that there are so many different kinds of Astrology both presently and from different points in history. It's one of those things that can clearly chew up your whole life...none of which is intended as a condemnation of its study. I think I sort of rely on people who have a natural aptitude for it to take the bull by the horns, much as I have done with my own stuff.

If we all had life spans into the thousands of years I think we could each of us plan on learning everything about everything and I would personally be down with that. As it is, we have to prioritize I think. In my case, Astrology has not struck me as being anything I urgently needed to know everything about, so I do what I can to pick the brains of people who are already steeped in its study.

edit: It saddens me somewhat that in all the years I have attempted to engage public dicussion of the Body of Light and its principles, I can count on one hand the number of times anyone has volunteered any insights stemming from Astrology. I am quite certain this can't be right...at the level of geometry alone there is certainly a lot more common ground than this...yet atrologers seem to be either unable or unconcerned about bridging these kinds of gaps. And that's ok I guess, but it sort of serves to push astrology just that much further out from my own sense of priorities...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

If we all had life spans into the thousands of years I think we could each of us plan on learning everything about everything and I would personally be down with that. As it is, we have to prioritize I think. In my case, Astrology has not struck me as being anything I urgently needed to know everything about, so I do what I can to pick the brains of people who are already steeped in its study.That's pretty much how I approach it as well. It can be really useful if pursued correctly although my priorities do not allow me to include it in my the current situation.
edit: It saddens me somewhat that in all the years I have attempted to engage public dicussion of the Body of Light and its principles, I can count on one hand the number of times anyone has volunteered any insights stemming from Astrology. I am quite certain this can't be right...at the level of geometry alone there is certainly a lot more common ground than this...yet atrologers seem to be either unable or unconcerned about bridging these kinds of gaps. And that's ok I guess, but it sort of serves to push astrology just that much further out from my own sense of priorities...I suspect there would be much to be said about the banner assignments and the 12 astrological houses...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I suspect there would be much to be said about the banner assignments and the 12 astrological houses...perhaps, although I have nothing to challenge the usual progression of astrological houses...just the banners themselves which are not a true chronology...

I'll try to get to that article soon though it may be a let-down after all the suspense...lol... as usual, it needs a set of graphics I haven't had time to get to yet.

Mostly I think it's just that astrology seems to operate...perhaps too much...in its own private Idaho. That's understandable to some extent but it is also why more people are not accessing it more regularly I think...

m1thr0s

[Copuldaemon]

In reply to Feranja's question, I'd say not important in the sense of I have never needed to study it in the sense that I've come far without but, when it goes to that saying, "every man and woman is a star", tells me that I should start something because to say there's something to it is an understatement.
If I can learn the general system of it and intuite it like my tarot, who knows, but it can't be a bad outcome.

[Pagan39]

I agree with Feranaja in that there is a lack of respect for astrology in occult circles...I think they want to steer clear of the dumbing down effect courtesy of the mystic megs and athena starwomen of the industry,as well as the pathetic sun sign columns in every daily newspaper.
The thing is,to study astrology thoroughly is a university level course of study.It takes years and most people dont want to do that.Understandably.Its also not taught very well...theres a way to teach it whereby people can read a birthchart quite easily within a few weeks.And then,if they want to,they can go on to a more complete study.Its all in the glyphs,people.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

My views pretty much match those of Kain and M1thr0s. I use astrology to embellish certain procedures or in interpratation of Tarot and omens, as well as the position of the Moon in the Zodiac back when I grew things or collected herbs or had to cultivate trees etc. Another practical use as to my own birth chart is that if I want to invoke (become) a figure represented in the Tarot then I use anything usefull I can find in my chart to reinforce my belief, such as using my 5 planets in Libra to become Justice, or the same 5 planets in House 10 to become Temperence. But as to popular personal astrology, I find most personal horroscopes provide little practical clarity, and now that Im in my thirties they dont work as chat-up lines either.

[Naomi]

The sun can knock out my wireless signal during the day just from radiation. I'm also sure the moon controls crustaceans and bloody vaginas.

Pretty effin important even besides all of the esoteric crap.

The question "How important is it?" has to be answered with another question: How far do you want to control the world around you and the people in it?

We are dwarfs dodging the motions of the great celestial giants of the sky.

Know enough to at least recognize and not cross a scorpio or to avoid judging a pisces as naive and innocent.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Know enough to at least recognize and not cross a scorpio

Cross a Scorpio? Why would I even want to talk to one in the first place? ;)

[Ci Celli Ddu]

How interesting...another occultist with a preponderance of planets on the Libra\Aries axis....seems to be a common occurrence...also the scorpio\taurus axis.
A good astrologer makes all the difference when learning your own horoscope.....I find my clients need to hear some aspects of their chart a few times before it becomes clear for them in a way they can utilise....some areas of the chart are like karmic\psychological blindspots....particularly the 'challenging' aspects like squares and oppositions.I know from my experience with my own....laugh.

Of the elements I have mostly fire, and no water whatsoever. I had it all with a 70 page analysis on floppy disk somewhere, but as I never use it Ive no idea where I last saw it

[Ci Celli Ddu]

....lol.....time to step up to the plate and become an astrologer,my friend,I guarantee an immediate rise in your batting average.



That would be anything above 0 :o_O:

[Pagan39]

Of the elements I have mostly fire, and no water whatsoever. I had it all with a 70 page analysis on floppy disk somewhere, but as I never use it Ive no idea where I last saw it

Thats the problem....too much information and no relevance...it gets to the stage where you really need one over your shoulder....who speaks very plain english...many astrologer's communication is impaired because they get lost in astrological technicalities.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Thats the problem....too much information and no relevance...it gets to the stage where you really need one over your shoulder....who speaks very plain english...many astrologer's communication is impaired because they get lost in astrological technicalities.

yeah well this one's in German, which makes it even more fun to read lol

[Pagan39]

yeah well this one's in German, which makes it even more fun to read lol


.....lol.....are you sure you want to know...whatever possessed you...you have to be bilingual.....

[Pagan39]

The question "How important is it?" has to be answered with another question: How far do you want to control the world around you and the people in it?

We are dwarfs dodging the motions of the great celestial giants of the sky.




.....Yes!.......thank you,Naomi....powerfully and succinctly put.......

[m1thr0s]

well...I've known a few really good astrologers and a lot of really bad ones. But this really speaks to something that needs to be repaired in general, however that can happen. Traditionally, Hermeticism has had a pretty huge commitment to astrological science but I think that all the trivializing of it in the media and so on has impacted even this.

From a mutational alchemy standpoint alone, I have some pretty good reeasons for wanting to understand the clockwork mechanism of the planets and stars better. This will be a little oblique so I will keep it brief, but since the ternary system of hexagrams has been discovered we are suddenly faced with a very complex question as to how the 729 ternary hexagrams actually tie into things. Yet we know that they follow a clockwork mechanism very similar to both Lunar and Solar cycles at least. One of the 729 hexagrams is a mutable and can either count as none or one or two depending on the need, so like 729-1=728 and 728 ÷ 13 = 56. 56 ÷ 2 = 28, so we get a Lunar year cycle this way with what is sometimes called an AM and PM hexagram for every day of the year. But 728 ÷ 2 = 364 and to get your solar year from this you need only assign your mutable 2 positions instead of one to get a 365 day year. In a leap-year you simply push this to 2 days and begin again as per normal the following year...so you can also track a Gregorian calender using this sytem of hexagrams. For a brief while this was apparently done in China, but they reverted back to the lunar system they still use today.

So...what this tells a mutational alchemist is that there appears to be more of a time relationship going on with the 729 hexagrams than one of matter, which we can fairly easily identify in the case of the 64 binary hexagrams. In a simplified sense, the 64 Binary hexagrams could be said to govern microcosm while the 729 Ternary hexagrams have more to do with Macrocosm. So my prediction here is that we are going to need to call on Astrology once again to help us sort this hexagrammal puzzle out...and it's a huge puzzle...much bigger than you might expect because just like the 64 binary hexagrams find their parallel in the DNA code, the 729 ternaries have something to do with coded time relativities and also have something very important to tell us about the Mind itself and how it synchronizes with whole universe...

That took longer than intended to explain but my point is that astrology...from a mutational alchemy standpoint..has nothing to do with telling fortunes or any of that popular crap anymore than the I Ching really does. You can use it that way, albeit rather poorly. But it does have something very real to do with identifying where things are at in relation to Macrocosm and may ultimately be our best guage of understanding what the hell to do with the ternary hexagrams themselves...

Anyway...it goes on but I think I have sort of made my point...it's important...more important than it may even actually realize.

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

Well, I correlated the planets to the chakras they correspond to if anyone recalls the details of that from back on OF. As Kriyananda of Chicago has taught, karma activates astrologically. Why? Because it's a question of cross-referencing gates which open the petals of particular chakras to release their karmic packet load which they contain at that time.

It is all very, very detailed though, far too detailed to actually master the full processes involved from a physically incarnated perspective. You can get as far out as the Zodiac belt quite easily though. Way that works is:

Circle 1: Ascendant, Midheaven, Lunar ( 0 principle)
Circle 2: Planetary Alignment Gates (12-14+ principle, variable with density)
Circle 4: Solar (24 principle, day. Also one other important thing in this context...)
Circle 3: Fixed Star Gates (Zodiac) (36 principle, Hercules Tasks belt)
Circle 4: Wormhole Techniques (48-56+ principle)

The best way to use these is to get into mediation and projection work. Many indian yogis can see the alignments in their minds' eye and use this ability to do chart 'calculations' on the spot without computer or such stuff. But an intuitive sense of timing as talked of by Takamatsu is about all you really need to develop unless you're heading off into the mythic realm of Tengu lore where it is said that they can change the very laws of creation themselves. That's when you really need to study astrology, and when you work in that field then you invariably come into contact with League of Shadows who do, indeed, connect to The Magi Society and The Naga. They're the only ones who understand the wormhole stuff properly too really. Though m1thros seems to have a pretty good handle on that too from what I can gather...

I'm also sure the moon controls crustaceans and bloody vaginas.


Yes. Check out the centre of the moon, who's there, and, perhaps, who's getting ALL women to do blood seals on what he wants every damn month till they master their menstrual cycles and unconscious minds. Well, they mei as well be useful for something till they're balanced enough to be masterful is his persective. He's not known for having any compassion whatsoever, incidentally. Yet has a wide open heart, for sure. Very cool when you begin working with that entity's insights/tools...

al the best,
Oazaki.

[m1thr0s]

Many indian yogis can see the alignments in their minds' eye and use this ability to do chart 'calculations' on the spot without computer or such stuff.that's kind of an interesting comment that seems to ring some bells for me. I remember reading that Pythagoras was said to be able to physically "hear" the music of the spheres in his head, for instance. I wonder sometimes that certain branches of occultism don't actually become established because of things like this to a large extent. In the case of astrology we know, of course, that a lot of its reason for existence was that it served to let people know the best times to do certain things vital to their survival...but I wonder that it isn't more than that as well..that some percentage of people are always going to be especially "wired" to the stars so to speak...

m1thr0s

[Pagan39]

well...I've known a few really good astrologers and a lot of really bad ones. But this really speaks to something that needs to be repaired in general, however that can happen. Traditionally, Hermeticism has had a pretty huge commitment to astrological science but I think that all the trivializing of it in the media and so on has impacted even this.


m1thr0s

You also need to remember occultism has its own 'taint' that many astrologers have sought to distance themselves from,particularly with the development of astrology as a psycho-therapeutic tool.
Astrology has now developed sufficiently to stand alone as its own science.We have a huge network worldwide with colleges,associations and a huge membership.So that we can afford to fund things like the Hindsight Project and the nascent beginnings of true community.

[Jacob]

that's kind of an interesting comment that seems to ring some bells for me. I remember reading that Pythagoras was said to be able to physically "hear" the music of the spheres in his head, for instance. I wonder sometimes that certain branches of occultism don't actually become established because of things like this to a large extent. In the case of astrology we know, of course, that a lot of its reason for existence was that it served to let people know the best times to do certain things vital to their survival...but I wonder that it isn't more than that as well..that some percentage of people are always going to be especially "wired" to the stars so to speak...

m1thr0s

The Naga sadhus are consulted with to decide upon the official start time of each Kumbh Mela and Maha Kumbh Mela(a huge Hindu pilgrimage, millions of people gather. The Maha Kumbh Mela of 2001 had about 30,000,000). There's always a general idea of the specific time, but the Nagas are so in tune that they can tell the exact moment of the actual alignment(specific Zodiacal placements of Sun, Jupiter and Moon, dependent on the location) that the Kumbh Melas are to begin on.

[Pagan39]

but the Nagas are so in tune that they can tell the exact moment of the actual alignment(specific Zodiacal placements of Sun, Jupiter and Moon, dependent on the location) that the Kumbh Melas are to begin on.

Thats the supreme virtue of the study of astronomy and its esoteric aspects....after a while you plug straight into the macrocosm......

[m1thr0s]

Astrology has now developed sufficiently to stand alone as its own science...yeah...that's all cool...just watch out that this stand-aloneness doesn't wind up just being a knee-jerk stand-offishness though.
Astrology, Magick, Occultism, Hermeticism, et al...all in the same boat really...

I like to think we are approaching a time where all these things can somehow manage to combine forces in mutually advantageous ways...I'm not sure what it takes to accomplish this...some unexpected precedent perhaps...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Cross a Scorpio? Why would I even want to talk to one in the first place? ;)

Haha!

Well they make the most loyal friends, willing to fight to the death for those they deem worthy...and the high/celestial aspect of Scorpio is the eagle!

Just kind of shows you how low thinking mankind is because of all the scorpions and grey lizards out there. :D

Plus they have a great morbid sense of humor and they don't take shit from anybody.

[Naomi]

Yes. Check out the centre of the moon, who's there, and, perhaps, who's getting ALL women to do blood seals on what he wants every damn month till they master their menstrual cycles and unconscious minds. Well, they mei as well be useful for something till they're balanced enough to be masterful is his persective. He's not known for having any compassion whatsoever, incidentally. Yet has a wide open heart, for sure. Very cool when you begin working with that entity's insights/tools...

Sebastian I see Grandfather Coyote as being in the center of the moon, in the trine aspect documented by the Egyptians as apuat-anpu-wepuat (sp?)

And the twin dog/wolf depicted on the traditional Tarot card of the Major Arcana, The Moon.

And he's a little bit spooky like his teacher, Kwakiutl. In the Northwest Kwakiutl Raven is depicted holding the moon in his beak, and he is a great sorcerer.

Jacob that's a great story. Snakes are all very good at sensing energies we are not attuned with. Probably comes with being able to sleep with their eyes open all the time and not hearing but feeling vibrations and seeing/sensing heat. That's perhaps also where the Naga understanding of wormholes comes from, and why they're called wyrmholes. :)

[Okazaki Castle]

yeah and we can hear in consciousness and feeling also, not just notes. so i'd guess that's somewhat similar to what you do with black holes... useful to be able to turn it off though at times... ;)

naomi: guess so some aspect or another. for me it connects to antares and the naga also. there's a weird metal content to the moon's deeper core too if you look/draw... now ehere did that come from and what does it signify one wonders.../

all the best,
oazaki /seb.

[Naomi]

Oh yeah the moon base. But it's funny now that you mention that I wasn't thinking about the center of the physical moon, I was thinking of the soul of the celestial body.

But on the topic of odd metal centers I would say the same about a number of other moons and dwarf planets in this system....

[Copuldaemon]

I thought about this thread or the question in particular. I get these little horoscope forecasts for the week and it'd said (in astro lingo) that some deep seeded emotions were going to surface and it'd be best to have self-compassion but afterwards, the end of the week will go off in playtime.
I didn't think about it until 2 nights ago I had a self-breakdown. I went to a place that I usually go to escape the hub bub of the slums and that time, I'd flipped out on myself. If I could beat myself up, I would of done it, that's how serious it was.
Then lastnight/yesterday, I don't know how it'd happen but I felt up my ex-mother in laws breast. So, yes, Astrology does have a very important role in the human drama called "me".

[Copuldaemon]

Another thing might I add here is that I must check the current astral allignment because right now, I have totaly in-depth understanding of things.
Stuff like this happens once or twice every 4 months so Ima jot this stuff downzy.

[Naomi]

Well I don't think it's astrological at all, (I think you meant planetary astrology stuff?) I've been worried about you for months cuz of the company you were keeping astrally.

[Copuldaemon]

sigh-you're never gonna put that rest are you?

[Naomi]

well just as long as you stay safe - you are fairly important you know ::big grin::

[Kuroyagi]

yes a strong core. who have you been on the OF- "endor"...or someone else?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I have no water at all in my chart. I mean 0%, nada, nichts, zilch. According to Astrology..

When a person's chart lacks water, there is the tendency for them to find it difficult to understand the feeling side of life and to show compassion to those around them.

...which frankly is a load of crap. If anything Ive been more often the opposite. If I can find something in my chart that empowers me in my magic, something which strengthens my magus-self/ego, I'll use it and 'believe' it. But otherwise as an interpretation of who I am or who I was I find that Astrology is bunk.

[Neshamah]

I learned Astrology quite early on in my magickal Path (I used to cast horoscopes and read Tarot to help pay my way through college -- way back in the mid-to-late 70's :eek: ). Since I learned it so early I have found it to be of enormous value in the timing of Rituals, in the understanding of my psyche (and of others), and in understanding other parts of magick which have Astrological links (such as Tarot and Qabalah).

I am surprised at how little respect is given Astrology in today's magickal community. Most magickians from earlier times learned Astrology first, and then built on it. It sort of served as a Foundation to the other disciplines.

Just another perspective from an older magickian. :yes:

Love, Light, and Peace,

Neshamah

PS: I use italics and underline simply to emphasize some of my statements. It is not an attempt to make my ideas look better, or more important than other ideas. Please, don't take it that way. :no:

[Frater Yechidah]

I think part of the problem is with the perception that Astrology (and, indeed, the Tarot) is something "New Agey" - we see horoscopes in magazines and "What's your star sign?" has become a catchphrase of daytime TV. I think a lot of modern occultists are put off by this, wanting something more "arcane" and less visible to the public. It's not a very positive perception, of course, but I feel this is, at least partly, to blame for the decline in respect for this subject.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

[Anibis]

I think it has something to do with the fact that in general mages are interested in undoing 'fate', and being able to have freedom, and Astrology has a reputation as an instrument of fate, however undeserved that may be. I am no astrologer, but I became very interested in the phenomena of 'nodes', particularly the planetary nodes yielded by heliocentric astrology. They are very useful, even essential in the practice of calendrics... Also, astrology is pretty much the language of western occultism itself... the whole architecture is sesigned to 'build the heavenly model' in the soul... it's just that astrology has an exoteric side that is a bit of an embarrasment, no? But heck, same with tarot...
-Anibis

[Okazaki Castle]

I think it helps to view astrology from its physical mechanistic perspective: it describes when certain frequencies of light are interacting with gravity in certain targetted combinations which hit and pass thru all physical matter on Earth. So, the weight and gravity of pluto will hit you on a certain specific frequency when pluto aligns in a certain way. That's gotta have some effect on your body.... and all others... as it passes thru them...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Anibis]

Yes, I agree, Oazaki... It is important to understand that these are 'objects in space' which have regular rythmes, which have been used to carry symbolisms on the basis of those rythms... it's good to be able to 'remove the overlay' when you need to so that you don't get lost in metaphysical phantasies built on top of metaphysical fantasies built on top of metaphysical phantasies... Don't get me wrong... I like the stories; but one must be able to 'translate' myth into the actual unadorned forces which spawn it...
-Anibis

[Neshamah]

Perhaps the link of Astrology with the Qabalah is what cinches things for me. Seeing the Sun as the mundane chakra of Tiphareth, and that those energies are all tied together within the Microcosm and Macrocosm, helps me to comprehend how important it is to understand those energies. I would very much like to see Astrology return to its prior prominence in Occultism.

Love, Light, and Peace,

Neshamah

[Okazaki Castle]

Well, I've got a version of the LBRP that I do astrologically...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Frater Yechidah]

How do you do the LBRP astrologically?

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

[Frater Yechidah]

I happened upon a piece in Three Books of Occult Philosophy tonight that gives a good indication of how revered astrology was in older times.

"This place doth require that we speak of magic; for it is so near joined to, and of affinity with astrology, in so much that he that professeth magic without astrology, doth nothing, but altogether is in an error."

- Agrippa, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, P. 689

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

[Sibylle]

Astrological profiles are fundamental to my understanding - I use astrology constantly.

[Okazaki Castle]

How do you do the LBRP astrologically?

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

There's a few ways to do that one. The method I use involves utilising the three within-orb pentagrammatic alignments of 2004, for example:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9845/25thnovemberpentagramzhtj4.jpg

And then rotating that counter-clockwise by assigning an elemental attributation to each Planetary intelligence involved in that alignment and getting the Planetary Spirits involved to sort out the rest themselves. that then produces a strong yet gentle (but irresistible) 'knock-on' effect via the Flows (or threads) of Fate, thru Time to the present moment - and so to whatever present situation one finds oneself in.

There's more ways to do it of course, but the key consideration in such an appraoch I personally think is that you need an actually physically-occuring pentragrammatic astrological alignment to work with, ie one which did actually exist and which you have 'sealed' to the physical in some way over the time when it actually occurred.

all the best,
OC.

[m1thr0s]

Astrological profiles are fundamental to my understanding - I use astrology constantly.I didn't really know that about you Sibylle. I find that very interesting...an atheistic astrologer then? It's possible I may have missed something...

Would this be something akin to Stratonician Atheism by any chance? Do you maintain, for instance, that the Universe is sufficient "first cause" unto itself etc???

Not to derail anything here...suddenly this all sort of hit me at once!

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

There's a few ways to do that one. The method I use involves utilising the three within-orb pentagrammatic alignments of 2004, for example:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9845/25thnovemberpentagramzhtj4.jpg

And then rotating that counter-clockwise by assigning an elemental attributation to each Planetary intelligence involved in that alignment and getting the Planetary Spirits involved to sort out the rest themselves. that then produces a strong yet gentle (but irresistible) 'knock-on' effect via the Flows (or threads) of Fate, thru Time to the present moment - and so to whatever present situation one finds oneself in.

There's more ways to do it of course, but the key consideration in such an appraoch I personally think is that you need an actually physically-occuring pentragrammatic astrological alignment to work with, ie one which did actually exist and which you have 'sealed' to the physical in some way over the time when it actually occurred.

all the best,
OC.

A most interesting method. You await an alignment, 'tag it' with a ritual, and then use it 'outside of time' as a battery.... Is this the idea?
-Anibis

[Anibis]

Imagine using a moment in time as a sigil... most cool... Very similar to using buildings, too sort of...
-Anibis

[Neshamah]

You don't really have to wait for an alignment like this to present itself. There's another way to perform an astrological LBRP.

You use the Sun as the Point of Spirit (the top triangle in the Pentagram), and then work around the Zodiac, 72 degrees (Quintile) apart. If you want, you can look up the Sabian symbols for each degree (or you can look at the degrees for fixed star info). Since a Quintile uses an Orb of 5 degrees, this means you have a 10 degree spread (5 on each side) to work with for finding celestial objects that fall within your deired placement.

Love, Life, and Peace Profound,

Neshamah

PS: You can use other points as the Point of Spirit (instead of the Sun), you could use any of the Planets, giving each Pentagram a different "feel" and a different "result."

[Sibylle]

I didn't really know that about you Sibylle. I find that very interesting...an atheistic astrologer then? It's possible I may have missed something...

Would this be something akin to Stratonician Atheism by any chance? Do you maintain, for instance, that the Universe is sufficient "first cause" unto itself etc???

Not to derail anything here...suddenly this all sort of hit me at once!

m1thr0s

If you missed something, it is that I'm not an atheist. I wouldn't assume that Stratos was an atheist because the Universe couldn't be inherently self-initiating without having "godkind" spiritual quality. That's because I see little power outside of spiritual power. It seems odd that there would be something referred to as Stratonician Atheism. I have to think more about that notion of a self-initiating Universe.

As far as astrology, I find it relevant in understanding people and of course it is important in understanding Tarot. Don't you find a basic understanding of it to be necessary to your work?

[m1thr0s]

thanks for clarifying Sibylle. I could have sworn you had defined yourself as an atheist in some other post somewhere, so I was operating on this assumption. I really need to get my damn glasses fixed!

Strato(s) didn't define himself as an atheist either. That was a stigma laid on him much after the fact by fairly prudish european philosophers (starting with Kant as I recall) who didn't really understand his assertions in lieu of Christian rhetorics. Strato just insisted that the Universe was inherently intelligent (ie, self-perpetuating and self-maintaining) and did not require any other "God" to have fashioned it together. From my perspective, he was arguing that the Universe and God are the same thing...not that there is no God per se.

Yes, astrology is one of our oldest and most universal sciences of Macrocosm, so much so that there is hardly a sophisticated culture we can point to that does not have some version of it going on. Because my own stuff has been pretty demanding in its own right, I have had to put together an understanding of astrology rather piecemeal...something I am not too thrilled about and am trying to correct on-the-fly...

m1thr0s

[Sibylle]

It is hard to find information on Strato of Lampsacus online, but I did find "Strato can also be regarded as the first philosopher to formulate an atheist worldview" (http://www.answers.com/topic/strato-of-lampsacus) more than once. I'd like to read more about his philosophy. Do you know a good online resource?

[m1thr0s]

I studied him years ago in college. He's one of the biggies in Greek Philosophy though so maybe scan Greek Philosophy sites. He's pretty important in his own right...they even named the Stratosphere after him...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

The Wand of Strato
or
The Stratoshield

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/Stratoshield.jpg

[Anibis]

MM, there is no other better description for you that 'Cheeky bloody miscreant!'
-A-

[Okazaki Castle]

A most interesting method. You await an alignment, 'tag it' with a ritual, and then use it 'outside of time' as a battery.... Is this the idea?
-Anibis

Basically, pretty much. I'd say more of a Gate than a battery though. Such alignments, like all alignments really, don't have any essential, integral power to them themselves. It is (in my experience, others will prbbly disagree with this) the Flows (or threads) of Fate - of which there are three - which are the 'power source' of time so to speak.

Basically the approach is to 'freeze', or 'jam open' an Access Gate to this system. Then, personally, I sub-lease such things to whoever wants to use them and gives me cool things for their use, eg demons, goetics (who I consider somewhat different to strict demons), gods, and so on.

Well, this is a desire system, where basically you get what you want, but have to go to hell for it (cuz it was nasty, represseive and abusive here) so there are lots of entities out there who want access to the system without having to enter it. For example, it's the Olympian Gods I've got running my LBRP's for me, ie I delegate such things (usually).

Interesting on the use of the Sun Frater Neshamah. Similarly I find the reaction processes between Helium and Hydrogen to be quite useful there, sort of like they make / allow for gates. Helium is very metal-like there I find. On that, does anybody here know why/how Helium connects to 18 and a 5 atomic structure, as featured on a traditional dice:

http://www.guitarpartsusa.com/ccp51/media/images/product_detail/KND-8-S.jpg

Normally science puts that at 4-2, ie the answer to everything:

http://www.chemistryland.com/ElementarySchool/BuildingBlocks/HeliumAtom2.jpg

But I think they're missing out the centrepoint, which is the key to using the Sun as a Gate really, I'm sort of guessing/intuiting... Magickal / esoteric knowhow on this from others would be appreciated as I don't tend to know the details of most formal, established systems myself...

all the best all,
Oazaki.