Elder gods from stygian murk, our primal archetypes?

[Copuldaemon]

I've been pondering this topic for the last few days only so for it was frustrating given my current mind state to format this into type but I'm here to do it and if I make it out to an unsatisfaction, well, thank good things for the edit button.

I say that despite all of our individuality which is based soley on the individual's choices of what they experiences, we're the same or at least our "hardware's" the same, meaning we are built with the same stuff.
That is to say as of recently, during my meditaition, my ass has been getting thrown all over the place because I am trying to learn how to control the energy that I have accumulated.

What I have learned is, there are general archetypes that are typical or atleast familiar to all of us even though we are different in tongue, flesh and way of life.

For instance, I can say that I have found a slew of authors or artwork in my early days about faceless, skid like, or massive tentacled-gaping mawed mouthed, eyeless or many eyed monsters wwaaaaayyyyy before I have discoverd the lovecraftian mythos. Now I know it can be debated that such works mentioned could of been HP inspired given that this man was walking on the earth a centurie ago and I'd agree but disaggree because for the fact that despite many were influenced by his works, I seriously doubt he's the only man to off ever come in contact with such disturbed things.

I am sure we all had, I know I had. The beautiful thing about ChM as I understand it is that there are no boundaries or limits, and by this, it is far more superior than any traditional or ancient system of will manipulation/domination.

In the aspect of ChM, I can use psychology or things dealing more with the human mind than that of a spiritual/faith base. Friends have always said that I am more Luciferian than Satanic in that respect.

That is to say that my methods are more scientifical in the essence of metaphysics than that of dogma or faith, is what I'm saying so that is to say there's a collective conscious and in that respect, do you think that these elder gods are from or originate from the subconcious or primal parts of this collective conscious????
Could it be that their grotesque descriptions are symbolic of the first fascinations or ideas from our imagination, twisted and bestial just like our ancestral forms? Could it be that they who descended from the dark stars, ruling the earth with civilations that nature and the gods have cursed only to be eventually outcasted to a void is symbolic of primal man emerging from the sea (hail tiamat) to create environments for themselves to surpass all other creatures only to be put on the back burner of our minds, with the door closed?
And supposing that is true, then the reason why the lore of these gods is that they hate us, want to enslave or destroy us is because we have escaped our primal conscious or are now independant of it and could it also be true that withn the lore of these mytho cults, that despite how these gods want to eat or enslave all of the human race, there are those who faithfully want to serve despite instant madness and death, is this symbolic of our need as modern humans to return back to our original contructs because despite our many social, civil and technilogical advancements, we are missing a vital part even though it is savage.
That although we are programed to seek safety and or to take refuge or to protect our values or what's valued, that we seek death and destruction not out of a morbid case of boredom but a need to reconnect with such aspects to feel 'alive'?

Could it be summed up that many of the now emerging magickians are trying to working with mythos because (whether they know it or not) they are trying to connect with their primal selves because it's part of a vital process to be whole while enroute to supremacy or literal godhood?

I don't know, any thoughts?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Hmm, I'd say I'm pursuing something that engages my fantasy/imagination , like just about anything I find interesting. The alternative would be boredom.

[m1thr0s]

wow Copuldaemon...that's some heavy aethers you're kicking about up there. I love that shit personally. I always cruise stratosphere. It's the only way to fly...

I say that despite all of our individuality which is based soley on the individual's choices of what they experiences, we're the same or at least our "hardware's" the same, meaning we are built with the same stuff.
you know, we worry too damn much about our individuality as if we could lose it at any inconvenient moment. That's just not going to happen unless we throw it to the dogs deliberately. When the matter turns to Unity and the challenge of Unity, it's actually our commonalities, not our differences, that we need to understand the most.

Could it be summed up that many of the now emerging magickians are trying to working with mythos because (whether they know it or not) they are trying to connect with their primal selves because it's part of a vital process to be whole while enroute to supremacy or literal godhood?we can only really become what we are already. If we abandon preconceived bullshit that has been passed down primarily to control us and discourage us from thinking for ourselves, we cannot help but arrive at the conclusion that there is no apparent "lid" on the human evolutionary thing...so why should we impose one then? I think people are often responding to the call of their own true natures anyway, amplified in our times by the very real threat of gobal catastrophe of megalithic proportions brought about by a particular kind of "stupidity" that has pitted man against nature as if man could somehow "win" a ridiculous competition of that sort. There may not actually be very much time left to sort the matter out correctly and rectify the damage. We may not be able to salvage anything on a global scale anyway...we can at least attempt to salvage ourselves I think. And if it extends any further than this, that's gotta be a good thing as well...

So yeah...the very ancient forms are sort of like rebuilding our brains from the stem up.
maybe we can actually get it right this time.

m1thr0s

[aniler]

As i understand your question to be why do new mages mostly go for panthenons i will give you my view on that . When starting out in the path of magick , it all being crisp and new . People sort of drown in info , of which rarely they find anything usefull in my mind . Like us when we are small children we look up at our parents and try and emulate them so we start walking running listening to their opinions and take those as our own

Same basically goes for the new people in magick if they are lucky and hit the right books , teachers or sites . They sort of get support and knowledge thats out there . CM and its panthenons being the easiest to follow and easiest to explain to a new person who most likely will come from a religion and already be used to worship of sorts . Its a minor adaption they feel more comfortable with than jumping lock stock and barrel into by example chaos .

[Copuldaemon]

thanks m1thros, and aniler I couldn't agree with you more about the beginning of a path. I love being drowned wiht information kind of like being enchanted with a female that I have an attraction for, where I'd do anything degrading of self-respect to gain her honor or favortism but later, the magick dies as you know more, and become familiar and then comfortable.
Even where becoming comfortable might be a bad thing in a relationship to a major degree, the same is not so in the field of the occult, which I also compare to being sociable.
I hate people's values that are only possible from this system but unlike many misanthropes, I choose to engage society as best as I can because you have to find out what works for you and what don't and the only way to do that is, well...
As for the right books, sites and teachers aren't really good because I think that we (well speaking for self) I place too much expectation on the teacher, and or in many cases I don't do well when I have all the tools of the trade so to speak but what's that saying about leading a horse to water?
Also, from my experiences with people whom I favor, are quite different due to their perception of things where it may limit me and vice versa.
I guess the point is it's scary to be alone even if we are nothing but the author of the gods, hinting of much unlimited power. Lusting for someone due to lonliness but company makes one lusts for sollitude-such frustration.

Anyway, I strolled way off track there. To answer my questions from the beginning post, my take on it is "yes" across the board.

In many stories, or adaptations of the beast, a beast, or one's bestial nature, the archetype are root of the message is, lock up the ravaging one because he can't be controlled and ignore him for it can be devious, and in many ways, there's truth to that but then again, we run from an aspect of something that we run into one way or another from our poor choices on health and situations and so forth so it's ironic.
I get tired of getting scared pretty quick and fear just sucks, so I like to face the beast or bestial and no it' snot easy, but I suppose riding a horse cowboy style isn't but what about the first human to decide to try riding or humping? a horse, how hard that must of been?
Anyways, yeah a mythos is crazy, even if there's a collective thoughtform of a whole hive of mythos which I'm sure there is.
I don't know if I'm rambling or not, but I have to go blow my nose and shave but...I think we are all wreckless beings, flirting with danger because of the excitement. That which is taboo is the greatest challenge to wet our panties or the backsides of our shorts, why?
Well, because we're bored because we (in this generation) have everything in a sense and or this is the result of ignoring what we are afraid of facing.
Like what's the purpose of a zoo besides the surface reasons of educating or entertaining from a safe level? I think it's a physical representation of what we do in our own minds which is to watch the different variations of caged beasts that are in our head.

[Kuroyagi]

I have found that there are more ways to access those primal things: from an evolutionary point of view there are two main strands: I call one the individual and the other the (archetypal) group-conscious ones. Looking into my individual being and my personal history I discovered the parallels to many creation myths and primordial things with uterine and proto natal experiences, with birth (cf. Grof: Perinatal matrices) and with my own awakening of my individual and seperated consciousness as a small child that began to emerge from the unity of all-oneness.

The other way is the classical regress through the (learys circuits!) ages of evolution our species and those before us have run through- and basically researching all life there ever was, in any form. (here a cool story by Klarkashton if you havent read it yet: http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/224/ubbo-sathla ). Here one can even go trans-creational, not "merely" trans-incarnational if one dares (and if one subscribes to the soul paradigm at all- else one can use darvinian...)

Spare has also confirmed my own research when he wrote his aphorism about that "new thing that cometh out of the past".
This concerns the Primordials, The Unspeakables or GOOs. They also have two major access-points: the one is the archaic one you mentioned: it means to make applicable ancient wisdom for yourself or even (as some sort of addiction) sacrifice ones self to those Old Ones, the eldest and most far off parts of life itself. Yet on the other end of the spectrum there stand those same primordial forces in the guise of the future. They are to be understood projective: as the dangers and possible attainments our scientific (and other) modern developments bring us: Atomic energy INcarnate, manifested eletricity per se, genetics, plastic surgery et cetera. They are all deformative to a high degree and contain great opportunities and dramatic failures within them. (also very good are the archetypes: Jung who saw- different to Freud- that those archetypes are actual and still active Forces instead of merely dormant and atavistic memories).

Good topic, everyone who is about to "create" the world in any form is confronted with these developments, today, much more those now-present adepts who controll or manipulate some of the major gateways...

[Ci Celli Ddu]

The great achievment of the GOOs of Lovecraftian mythos is that their stories are unfinished and their existence open-ended. Quite a unique situation, I think, if one compares them with even more widely popular fictions such as Tolkien's mythos and the Star Wars universe. In the former, the stories, filled as they are with their own cosmology and divine hierarchy (eg The Silmarillion), are nevertheless stories that have endings, and the influence of the Valar quite concretely fixed within the boundaries of a fantasty era that in no way attempts to enter our own reality. The latter, Star Wars, may inspire people into calling themselves Jedi or Sith, but its iconic archetypes are mere mortals, even the most powerful wielders of the Dark Side, who all fail and fall in the end and at no point even approach the dreadful power of the Old Ones.

[Copuldaemon]

The latter, Star Wars, may inspire people into calling themselves Jedi or Sith, but its iconic archetypes are mere mortals, even the most powerful wielders of the Dark Side, who all fail and fall in the end and at no point even approach the dreadful power of the Old Ones.-Well said.

Kuroyagi-thanks for linking it.