Seal of Lucifer

[digitalwind]

Hi Fellow Luciferians,
Does anyone know the meaning of the Seal and Characters of Lucifer as represented in the Grimorium Verum ? http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/bcm/img/18500.jpg
I want to create my own amulet/sigil using, naturally for a Luciferian, my own combination of symbols, ideas, etc. taken from history. Part of this will be my own 'new' ideas, symbols. Any info or ideas would be appreciated.

He in I, and I in Him,
Ego sum stella splendida et matutina

[Blackrose]

hi

Have you seen the symbol used by the NeoLuciferian Church? It is one of the small triangular sun symbols, taken from the Grimoire Verum Lucifer set.

About a week before Easter Sunday, I drew them all out myself. I was planning on doing an invocation and commisioned Lucifer's seal to be made for me, in gold, from an artisan that does goetic works and hermetic solomonic seals: we agreed he would do it on Easter Sunday, for good effect. My own personal feeling is that Lucifer falls under the astrological aspect of Aries and not venus.

However my rapture was somewhat understated, when he sent me the medallion, which is not the seal of Lucifer at all!! Not one of the seals or sigils of Lucifer from the GV is anywhere on that medallion!!

He seems to have"misunderstood" and put the wrong diagram on it. He put on a planetary disk that is from the Grimoire Verum, but really you could not possibly think it had anything to do with Lucifer. On the other side is a Triangle of the Art.

At first I was really annoyed but then I decided to try to be philosophical about it............ It sort of looks like a planetary version of the Ring of Solomon! And I have been looking for alternate Triangles of the Art and this one is a bit unusual...........(neither one say the name of Michael)

There is another "triangle" to summon the spirits, by the sigils of scirlin, from the GV which I think would be good for the familiars of Lucifer. It is made wholely with the sigils of the art, not the usual God names.

I was looking closely at the little sun sign that is in the triangle of the seal of Lucifer and you can see it inside 2 other of the spirit seals...............I like trying to decode spirit sigils and the first step to doing that is finding matching symbols. They often have something to do with astrology. I have also noticed that the inverted triangle is a recurring theme. Does it have the same meaning as the inverted star?

Here is a link to the Neo-Luciferian Church where you can look at the seal and how they chose to use it

www.neoluciferianchurch.org/links-en.htm (http://www.neoluciferianchurch.org/links-en.htm)

{Luciferi primo cum sidere frigida rura carpamus, dum mane novum, dum gramina canent

"Let us hasten, when the first morning star appears,
to cool pastures while the day is new, while the grass is dewy"}

---Virgil's Georgic (III, 324-5)

I have also noticed that the book Luciferian Witchcraft by Micheal Ford has the full (conjuring!) "circle" of lucifer which includes the seal and I would like to know where he got it!--Blkrse

[TLF]

Here is a link to the Neo-Luciferian Church where you can look at the seal and how they chose to use it

www.neoluciferianchurch.org/links-en.htm (http://www.neoluciferianchurch.org/links-en.htm)



The Sigil was discussed here:

http://community.livejournal.com/nl_church/4986.html

[chaos_mage4]

Yes, I agree that the book of Michael W. Ford has it, and it looks pretty well drawn and could work, however I haven't worked with it myself. You could also make a seal/sigil yourself of Lucifer, it's always good to get personal IMO.
Hope that helps,
~Christopher

[Blackrose]

Hey y'all

Wow CHRISTOPHER is my husband's name!! Its a small world after all..............ha ha ha. (he is "out of town" until next fall)

Anyway!! Im pleased to announce that I have made some progress with the project to correctly produce the seal of Lucifer!!!

After the first failed attempt, I reasoned that the problem was that fate was not really with me because the gold plate is something you use for demon seals and this is Lucifer, who is Emporer, so that is going to be different and that I should try to get a ruby inscribed as the instructions actually state, in the GV.

So, in due course, I got 2 of them done. The first one was really small and you would have needed a magnifying glass to read it, unfortunatly. However the lady that did it is one of the most impressive practitioners I have ever met.

The second one was on a triangle pendant; the pendant points up and the sigil that was engraved points down. I used only the sigil, which is popular in chaos magic and on discussion forums as an avatar.

That went pretty well. The person that did it is not a practicing magician though; he just follows instructions well and has more than usual amount of native talent.

So, I was still struggling with some problems. Its nice to have a seal, but both the ones I had were nt really "usable". So eventually, I ordered a more expencive Ruby from India that is literally a ruby DISK. Its 3 inches lengthwise and 2.5 the other way and about 1/4 in thick.

I have sent it back to the adept practitioner, who did the small one (with a magnifying glass--lol) triumphantly. This one is large enough to use!!!!

She really is quite nice as well as being a gifted adept. She has agreed to engrave it again, on either side with both the circle seal and the sigils and spirit seals of zodiacal rank; on August 05, which at the day I write this, is about 3 days away.

The moon is waxing in sagitarrius. The sun is in Leo and so is saturn. I think it will make a good talisman to be used for conjuring!! And Im really holding my breath that this time, I will get it right.

I have an idea also, to make a Blackrose Luciferian Tarot Deck, with all the seals of the Goetia and the seals of the upperlevel ranking Sanctum Regnum........

Im looking for good software to use to put my research and designs on, before I take it to a publisher, if anybody has any recommendations!!

I need to be able to use arcane images (scanned) and design templates using illistrations. Or even software that already has illistrations that I can use. I have 2 that l like but Im waiting to see how this whole ruby thing works out..........

Im also planning my own conjuring circle made on leather hide. The lady that is going to engrave the seal for me has sold me some spell ink that she says can be seen by the spirits more easily and has 'secret ingrediants' (although she wont say what they are) and that will make a conjuring circle that is compatable to the GV. She actually sells conjuring circles on her site; so I believe her.

Im making my own because I have a very distinct design I want to try: the circle (also used by John Dee) from the Liber Juratus and you add a 9 pointed circle around the 7 pointed one. The reason is that the one in the Liber Juratus (you can see it listed on the Esoteric Archives site) is only for the 7 planets and zodiac. The 9 pointed star is to include the FIXED STARS of the premium mobile.

I havent entirely finished the design yet, but ask me again in a month or a season. At some point I want to publish all my work in a book titled ARS TENEBRAE.

Also, I want to finish the finer points on making black spell candles, with the Essence of Mandrake added; that you absolutley cannot beg borrow or steal from any wiccan, thats for damn sure. I have asked countless wiccans to just add some mandrake root powder when they make candles and they always always always refuse. They fear the darkness--lol.

Thats ok, its just one more thing that can go in my book.

---Blkrse

[chaos_mage4]

Hehe, small world indeed ;). I'm glad to hear you got that sort-of fixed now Blackrose, I didn't read all of the post as I skipped the parts with the technical things in it, I'm still a noob lol.
But, could someone possibly tell me what page the seal of Lucifer is in Luciferian Witchcraft? I thought I seen it in there before, but probably got it confused with something else.
Edit: I would like to read your work Blackrose, or the tarot, or whatever! That would be interesting, IMO, but may I suggest Lulu? I've heard there a good place, but have no experience there myself.
Thanks,
~Christopher

[Blackrose]

Well The Seal of Lucifer inscribed on the Ruby came in the mail yesterday. Im still struggling with the ink recipe and the leather hide to make the circle.

The circle should be about 10-12 feet..........but Im thinking 9 since that fits the math pretty easily without having to resort to fractions--lol. You should be able to do some simple arithmatic and figure the inches between each point of the 9 pointed star if you know the diameter is 9 ft.

I started with 10 feet but it was hurting my brain--lol. Also if you are good at geometry you can whip out a formula that converts degrees to inches if you know that a circle is a 360 degree angle and there are 40 degrees between each point in a 9 pointed circle.

So given that, knowing your diameter is 9 feet you should be able to do some math and figure the inches between each point.

The Ruby looks great. She filled the engraved seal with copper solution that looks gold. Its pretty. My reckoning of Lucifer's zodiacal dominion is Venus in Aries, so having a copper solution used on the Ruby is not as big of a contradiction as you might suppose.

Umm I dont know what to say to you about Michael Ford other than his books suffer from a conspicuous lack of a bibliography!!!! You certainly cannot !! use them for research. In that regard, it might be about as useful to use heavy metal songs or popular comic books.

So, take them at face value. That is what they are for. They are intended to be used in cult practice in theistic satanism. That is something else entirely from medieval conjuring, although Satanists do "borrow" alot since their cult practices are more or less devoid of bibliographies--lol.

Check out these sites, ye newbies:

www.degrees8.tripod.com/id1.html (http://www.degrees8.tripod.com/id1.html)

and PLEASE remember what I said about FICTION!!!

www.Ravenoir.com (http://www.Ravenoir.com)

Just because its in print doesnt mean its the truth. Far from it. Everything I use in my magical practice has at least 2 or 3 varifyable and well known sources, that are emphatically NONFICTIONAL. -lol.

But I realise that this is a difficult feild and the manuscripts are hard to come by and that most satanists are nt motivated to bother. That is fine. In fact, I anticipate that the result will be a pleasent and welcome reception to my own work, which for some reason is the first of its kind, although why that is remains a mystery to me.---Blkrse

[chaos_mage4]

Blackrose, I don't know what book you are talking about that is by Michael W. Ford. The one I have, Luciferian Witchcraft, whenever it has a quote it is in italics, and has quotation marks around it, and has what it is (book, author, year of publishing etc.) and there is a Bibliography in the back.
I don't know what you are talking about, but Luciferian Witchcraft definetly has a bibliography, and cites it's sources.
Also, I'm glad to hear the seal finally came! I guess good things do come in time :D.
Thanks,
~Christopher

[Blackrose]

Sorry I dont mean to make disparaging remarks. Lets just say that "sometimes" people who write about Lucifer get....ah hem.......carried away with themselves and they dont always double check for authenticity about things they "claim". Kay?

I would like to recommend some books to you but I dont know where I would begin. The books I would recommend to a newbie have very little to do with Lucifer. The magick that I use in conjuring is fairly complicated and it took me all told at least 10 years of hard practice and study to accomplish all that I have done. The last 3 or so have been extremely hardcore, in fact.

As general advice, I could tell you : Study the Tarot. Study Alchemy. Collect ceremonial tools. At some point most magicians figure out that they have either guiding spirits or a Gaurdian Angel. Or both. This spirit guide is usually very helpful in teaching you things and letting you ascend to higher levels of thought and understanding and practice.

So, over time, its not so much that you have a "dialog" with the spirits but that you listen for cues to cut out all the difficult work. The spirits will show you books and let you know if the things you are doing in ceremonial practice please them or offend them. Alot of the importance of divination has to do with this part of the process, although divination in itself is a fascinating mystery.

At first, when I started to consider all of these thing s about Lucifer I wanted to make my Tarot devoted to the Infernal Ranks of the Sanctum Regnum immidiately!! but then I realised a few details that probably will take me awhile in practice to work out. And I want it to be GOOD, not just half assed.

But there are intresting questions to consider. For example here 's kind of a funny one, that made me laugh when I thought of it. If Lucifer is the Emporer who will be the Devil (in the Tarot deck?)

Recently I was reading a compilation of Dagoberts Revenge Mag that was put together into a book. The articles are pretty interesting. One of them talks about Asmodeus and has him pictured in a hebrew Tarot deck that I have never seen before (and I have seen alot of them!!!!!!) as the Devil, in his guise as he is described in the Testament of Solomon, as having talons for feet.

Interesting. It present the problem of who the Devil card will be? But also is a plausable story to fit into that card, for the magician. If you know the story, Asmodeus wrests the Kingdom from Solomon by stealing his magic ring. The moral of the story is that Raphael is able to save Solomon eventually but it is a very difficult trial and Solomon still loses the Kingdom in the end.

I have thought about this story a great deal. It is fundemental to conjuring, since Asmodeus is a VERY famous demon. (did I say very? I meant very very very very very famous) And, it makes you wonder if the precautions that are commonly given are really enough if you dont exercise wisdom in your practice. That seems to be the true moral of the story.

Casting the circle is one of these precautions, to prevent the spirits from harming you, as in this story. My own personal understanding of the story is that where Solomon went wrong was in asking the spirit to APPEAR in physical corporeal form. Due to the nature of the creature it doesnt like to have to do this. Solomon sort of tortured it by keeping it in corporeal form for a long time and even throwing Asmodeus into his dungeons for a while.

So, this enraged the spirit.

Dagoberts Revenge mag is pretty good because it openly talks about the origins of the fallen angels and the story of the Nephilim, which is refreshing. The reason that the spirit finds corporeal form to be unpleasent is because of this origin.

So, personally I dont actually ask the spirits I conjure to appear visibly. Id rather they didnt anyway. That is not the purpose for which I call them. My structure of conjuring is very precise and I prepare a message in advance which I deliver at the correct moment and then I close, I do not really look upon the exercise as "entertainment" but more like a chore. Its actually quite draining if you do it alot as a discipline.

And yes, I do alot of it. More than I could describe to you. But I dont see how else to get anything done?--lol.

Ummm. As a Newbie you might enjoy reading the story of the life of Faust. That s a good story and it sets you up for alot of the other literature that is out there, on both the side of the inquisitors and exorcists and the practitioners and historians. Sort of plays the "devils advocate".

As another post script to my story about the Ruby, I have had a few adventures. The thing with the ink is taking AGES to resolve. There are so many ingrediants that I want to add that are not readily available that I have to back order them and on and on. Im having trouble with the leather: one of the peices is the wrong color and I had to send it back to match it to the right color peices.........

But eventually I just figured, what the Hell, am I going to let the Sun in Leo pass and not consecrate this Ruby? NO. So I consecreated it and a dagger I had handy that needed it. That went pretty well. No circle needed for consecrations, just for summonings.

And once consecrated, it is formidable as the weapon and the tool and the talisman for which it was created to be, to be used by me to the ends which I designate.
The summoning can come later when I have finished all the other stuff. This circle might take another couple of weeks to finish at the rate its going. Once the ink is mixed and the leather is assembled then I still have to apply all the various designs to it, but that is one of my strong points in my work so Im not too worried about that part. Assembling supplies has never been the easy part for me.--lol

Lets see: other books I could recommend...........

Last week I gave one of my freinds a book called The Secret History of Lucifer which is pretty good, although the author is clearly an aethist. That might get on your nerves if you are into Theology.---Blkrse

[Blackrose]

Just a note as an after thought, also; if you are into heavy metal, you may have heard of the band slipknot. They came out at least 10 years ago.........maybe in '95? If memory serves? Im not a fan of their "music". But they are still around. People who are masochistic followers of death metal consider them to be standard fare, I have noticed.

Well, recently on a trip to the local Mall I was talking to one of my freinds who is the manager of a sort of gothic type store locally called Hot Topic, if you have heard of it. I like it because they sell black roses--lol. Seriously!! That is one of the reasons I go in there. And also my freind works there and we were having a chat about the ongoing things that happen with this Ruby.

Its taken along time to get it to where it is now. It took me a long time to find a practicing magician who would do it and so on..........etc.

Well so recently I went in and said hello. I had just got the Ruby in the mail but I was freaking out because nothing was working out with my supply list.

While we were standing there, I noticed that they sell cool key rings and stickers at the counter and I was absentmindedly looking at one, picked up what looked like a silver matte colored star and counted the points. 9 points!!!!!!

Its a slipknot fan accessory!! They use the 9 pointed star in their stage productions and occasionally put it on their merchandise, like Ts and stuff. Wow!!

How co-incidental is that?

So if you care to look up Slipknot on one of their fan sites, they list more info about their use of the star. It freaked me out so much I bought the key chain and put it on my keyring, although as I said I dont think much of their music--lol.

Their band seems some what antisocial. Whats with the masks?

But still, fascinating that they use that symbol. I really like it. It grows on you. Since I already have 2 rubies I was thinking I might try to get a Sapphire and put the seal on that and put the 9 pointed star on the back this time.

Honestly I dont know what to think of co-incidences with Bands. Last year, there was a band playing locally called the Nephilym and I was very impressed that they knew about it at all and I ASSUMED that they must be magicians and must be conjuring, like Michael Ford.

Nope. They are drunks.--lol. Its a garage band. Kind of a let down really. They hadnt ever heard of the book of Enoch or anything. I actually wrote to the lead singer at some length until I figured out that he was really just a garden variety alcoholic looking for a gimick.---Blkrse

[m1thr0s]

musicians pull that crap all the time. Bit annoying really watching a bunch of slobs cashing in on things they know nothing about. Occasionally they even manage to write songs that achieve a kind of hyperspace altogether in advance of their conscious understanding. Sometimes the artist lucks out and gets played like a fiddle by higher forces than their own. But it rarely lasts beyond a cut or two and it can create a wrong impression when you finally come to learn they are just about as dumb as dirt in reality...

Oh well...the light's gotta get through somehow I guess...

m1thr0s

[Blackrose]

hi Mithros.

Yeah that band was .......very typical, they play at the local army base. The same people who like slipknot and drink themselves into oblivion every saturday night no doubt attend their recitals.

However, I jumped to the conclusion that they knew all about conjuring and were actually a sort of practicing cult. That might be some wishful thinking on my part, since I would LOVE a ready made coven like that, espcially an all male one, where I could step in as high preistess---lol. No such luck. Those guys are too drunk to be good for anything.

Mostly my standards are: you have to at least use consecrated candles. That is the difference between people who have a band and are goofing around and people who are trying to actually summon angels. If you dont use consecrated tools, it makes the spirits mad. I dont want any part of some unholy mess where somebody starts summoning demons they cant vanquish in the morning (either literally or metaphorically---lol)

But, now that you mention it. This is part of one of my side interests, besides books and stuff. I really like music. I play the piano and I like classical music and I used to listen to alot of Baroque Masters when I was giving public recitals as a child. My mom had me playing for public galleries from when I was about 2 nd grade (7 yrs?).

Thank God I didnt end up like Mozart, who was dead in a gutter by the time he was 30!! But nevertheless, I have had my taste of the agony and the extasy, as they call it. I no longer own a piano---lol. Its just easier that way. However I do own a CD player and that gets some fair play.

Recently I have been searching for musicians that have heard of the fallen angels or really, anything that has to do with ceremonial practice. There is Anael, which is an artist that does work under the name of the Archangel of Venus. Thats pretty good. Technically anael is a fallen angel since there is no longer an archangel of Venus and it is widely accepted that Anael after the fall now inhabits the 3rd heaven. But thats not so bad: not really demonic, although not as glorious as of yore. I would call Anael an influencial but some what temperamental spirit. Becareful in summoning in the company of the Goetia: that might not be prudent. The music by the Artist Anael is EXCELLANT.

Recently I got 2 CDs that are decent in the terms of my personal inquiry. One is called the Reign of Fire and its completely piano compositions from beginning to end, each one devoted to a fixed star with the subsequent season listed. I wont list all of them, but Regulus and Spica, my favorites--lol are in there. Its pretty good. A bit heavy for easy listening though. Obviously a well thought out composition.

Then there is one that I just got yesterday called SURIEL which is by a german heavy metal band. I speak German (and french) so I dont find this an obsticle and occasionally I just switch without telling anyone--lol. This is not intentional, its just that how are you going to read about a subject if you dont allow yourself to be exposed to the material? This band is also excellant; although very heavily influenced by current heavy metal format and obviously in German. The cover shows only 2 black wings and all the songs listed with german titles. "Gefallen Engeln" etc. Good stuff!!

Anyway I should say this is the real deal. The Germans are aware of angel magic in a way most english speaking magicians are not, I have observed. They sell Angelic Talsimans in germany (in the DM or whatever the equivelant Euro is now) that are not available in english speaking countries.

I would compare it to Druid magic, which is really fairly unique to Britain and parts of France. They sell special things for the practice that other folks dont use and which arent available elsewhere.

So I knew already that I can buy talismans in Germany (der Deutche Republic) that are not sold in any other place. They carry the medallions of Solomon, the Keys, Medallions to the Archangels upon which are written the characters of the planetary spirits...........

This band is sort of the equivelent to this phenomenon in Heavy Metal. If you actually really do comprehensive search for the Fallen Angels, you will discover that the bands that cover them are mostly Latin speaking, out of latin based countries like Argentina.

This album is devoted to Suriel, reputed to be the angel of the Presence, the Sun, The Highest Throne, and to have provided Michael with his protective sheild during the war in Heaven after the fall.

Thats a pretty hard core angel right there. The funny thing about the Solar spirits is that they are so powerful that they seem threatening. You get these references to the "black sun". I dont know if there IS a black sun, but I can see where it comes from because the Solar spirits are very ...................blinding and strong. They are described as "arrogant".

As a footnote, from what I understand, Lucifer is the Emporer of the Infernal Ranks but you should not forget that the Infernal Ranks come BELOW the Heavenly ranks. So yes, he holds the rank of Seraphim. And I think there may be others of that rank, who fell...........Im trying to put together some of the texts right now, which are all fairly ancient and only scraps and peices remain of them.

There were 2 others, Azazel comes up alot. They are supposedly chained to a mountain in an abyss somewhere. They are one of the host of "burning serpents" (seraphim).

If you know the formulae (words) you can recieve their instructions.

Anyway what I was trying to say is that the Solar spirits of the Presence of the Most High OUTRANK Lucifer. In fact, Suriel is specifically given the power to KILL the fallen angels, in Punishment and Wrath.

So, thats good to know, as a banishing, if you know what Im sayin. The problem is that if you call a demon and then are not able to banish it, you could be in for a world of trouble. They have to respect that you are worth their attentions. Otherwise they dont listen (or worse).

So for one of the Infernal Ranks as high as Lucifer was (is) you are going to need some special techniques to call him (that is why I want the 9 pointed star) and then the Banishing might require some of the arcane formalae that date back to the time of Solomon, Moses and Adam.

Right now Im studying the Black Magic of the Mandeans, which is available on the Internet in PDF if you know where to look. That is the works that predate Hebrew, written in Aramaic, which tell all the same stories of the Flood, the war in Heaven and names angels and gives Formulae. Also, theres some info listed in Babylonian Astrology and something called the "babylonian Talmud" which is a bit over my head at the moment.---Blkrse

[chaos_mage4]

Blackrose, what do you mean about authenticity? About the books I mean.
And yes, I do like the idea of magick bands. (Michael Ford, of course :) comes into mind here, he's the only one I listen to though, about magick and stuff I mean) Anyway, I would say if one is personal towards Lucifer, as in he is a friend of yours or something like that, then I would think that one wouldn't have to banish after working with him, or any other demon for that matter. (I mean that if your a friend of the demon that is. If your not, or if your not powerful enough to handle a demons' precense yet, then yeah, banish.)
*Sort of Christian below.*
And, not to get all Christian and stuff, but if you needed a super-duper (lol, corny I know) banishing, than Metatron would work fine. For, as the versions of the story go, he is only second to God himself.
*End of Christian sort of.*
Lol. Anyway, yea, I agree, most bands that are singing about that don't have a clue what they're talking about, but some do.
Nice thread,
~Christopher

[Luciftias]

Wow, this thread got really interesting! It's funny, I was listening to Slipknot while reading the post that mentions them. I never thought of them as an occult-conscious band. I figured the 9 pointed star was simply because it looked cool and that they have 9 band members.

I'm interested to hear what connection Blackrose feels that Lucifer has with a 9 pointed star. I would have thought the standard inverted pentagram would be most appropriate. The inverted pentagram symbolically depicts the Angelic Fall. The pentagram is also commonly refered to as the "Blazing Star" in the Western Mystery Tradition, and is symbolic of Venus as "The Morning Star" - a title of Lucifer. I'm also interested to know why she connects Lucifer with the Ruby. I know Crowley made this connection as well, but I see a much stronger connection between Lucifer and the Emerald. For one thing, the emerald is the gemstone of Venus, which Lucifer has been connected with since the beginning - Lucifer was even the Roman name for the planet in it's function as The Morning Star. In addition, there is the story (in Parzifal, I believe) of the main gemstone in Lucifer's crown being the Emerald, which was knocked out during his battle with Michael, fell to earth and became known as the Holy Grail. Some would connect Lucifer with Hermes-Thoth and the most famous of the writings of Hermes would be the Emerald Tablet. Whether you connect Hermes with Lucifer or not, at the least there is the connection between the emerald tablet and the antedulivian pillars designed to preserve the knowledge of the sciences taught to humanity by fallen angels, in the event of a global disaster (which ended up being the Flood, but could have been a fire according the the prophesy of Enoch.) I would definitely agree that Copper would be the appropriate metal.

As far as the infernal hierarchy being lower in rank to the celestial hierarchy... I think its a matter of perspective. I think context is the most important thing to consider. "Good" and "Evil" aren't as useful to the initiate as they are for the masses. As far as conjuring, I always use a circle and always send the entity away. There is one type of work where I make exceptions, which is more like junging psychotherapy and inner dialoguing with my own sub-personalities. I do my inner work in my inner temple, so if there ever was an issue with sending an entity back to its abode, I'm still safe in the circle. I don't have to worry about stepping over a physical "line in the sand." I can still navigate the phsyical world without restriction while remaining in my circle. Lab work doesn't require a magic circle. A sealed flask works just fine to isolate the subject from unwanted influences.

I'm a musician. The main songwriter of my primary band usually has relationship issues as his subject matter. That's what makes him feel the strongest emotions, so thats what he sings. However, I've been working on stuff for a side project and my subject matter is certainly influenced by my occult work, however I decided not to make it the sole focus. I like to have some fun with it, and it's for a public audience so I also sing about sex, horror themes (warewolves, torture, etc...), "the system", etc... As you might have guessed, my side work would be in the metal genre. haha. Not sure if people listening to my metal work would see me as a serious occultist or if they would figure that I was just playing with themes in song. I'd probably prefer the latter, actually. I'm not afraid of discrimination. I just find that talking about this stuff with most people is a waste of time. There have been some really interesting threads on this forum, and I have a circle of associates around the world who I discuss the specifics of my work with, but that's about it. People who hang around me for a bit will figure out what my interests are, but I keep the details of my active involvement private. People not involved in the actual work that I do don't need to know the details.

"To Know, To Will, To Dare and To Remain Silent"

Luciftias

[Ðanisty]

I never do any kind of banishing when I'm dealing with Lucifer. If I ever dealt with a demon that I don't know, I probably would but with Lucifer, I don't much see the point. I want him in my life, so why would I banish him?

[Blackrose]

Ok let me answer each point:

Authenticity~ People who do not research their bibliographies or follow correct ceremonial practice are not likely to be sincere, no matter how much you stubbornly cling to the hopes that they are. I am reminded of a personal experiance that is a metaphor for this: My aunt died of diabetes, after going blind and being obese for the better part of her life, because she was a "christian scientist" and they dont "believe" in medicine. She wouldnt take the insulin. Moral of the story: just because you think its true doesnt mean it IS.

VENUS: I believe that Lucifer is the Emporer, which holds dominion of Aries. The last decan of Aries is under the dominion of Venus. This is a direct match to the Verna Equinox and that is why I asked my freind to make the the ruby seal on Easter, the first time. The second time I used Leo because I sort of generalised that Im working with Solar spirits and Leo is the Ruling sign of ALL the solar spirits. This answers the other questions about ranking and the ruby also.........

The ruby is recommended in the Grimoire Verum as being the substance used for the Solar Spirits Talisman. This is mentioned in my length y and evidently tedious expliantion to "Christopher".

I am inscribing all of the seals with the sigils and signitures from the Grimiore Verum. If you want to see what they look like, just look them up. As I mentioned, they are listed on the Esoteric Archives Site. If you have a copy o f Waite's Ceremonial Magic he lists them in that also.

In the process of doing ceremonial magical summonings of various spirits, I learned that I personally must banish all spirits. That includes elementals, angels, planetary spirit messengers, archangels, etc etc etc.

My personal experiances have shown that it angers them not to be dismissed. You might compare it to if you called someone on the phone and wouldnt let them hang up. You have to say good bye at somepoint and let them go about their buisness or they get mad.

The banishings are a personalised address that indicate their rank. Its not really a definition of whether you are "freinds " or not. Obviously that is a personal matter between you and the spirits you call. It may be that if you ARE freinds, that they will be more freindly and do you more favors. If they dont look well upon your requests, whether you banish might not be significant, overall (although I do not omit it no matter what).

The 9 pointed star has to do with the nature of summoning and ranking. The 7 pointed star is for the zodiacal spirits. READ THE LIBER JURATUS. John Dee also used it (supposedly to communicate with spirits via scrying mirror)

The 9 pointed star includes the premium mobile. If you dont understand how to use this in magic, I certainly cannot teach it to you in a forum post. My suggestion is to study Babylonian Astrology and Egyptian magic and figure it out using your noodle.

Hint: Look first to the dog star, Sirius.

OK everybody, the Ruby is consecrated and Im going to do the conjuring circle this week. Did anybody look up Mandean Magic? (Common Mithros, I know you did)

I have also initiated a second similar seal to be made in Virgo out of Sapphire. The purpose of the Ruby is for works of Wrath and the Sapphires is for works of wealth. It will be made during the time that corrisponds to the 10 of pentacles in the Tarot.

This may not entirely answer every question. Some of these questions cant be answered in a post. If I am not clear enough in my explanation, try looking up the angelic ranks of the 7 heavens, planetary rulerships, Seals of Lucifer, uses of gems in talisman making, Egyptian Star magic and Aramaic Angelic summonings.

---Blkrse

[chaos_mage4]

Hmmm... Now I know what you are talking about towards authenticity. Well, not everyone incorporates ceremonial practices in their work. Not everyone needs to either. I mean, if the spirit asks or whatever your reason, I don't think one would have to have ceremonial practices. For instance, Michael Ford (I only refer to him, because he is the only author I have read anything "Satanic" or "Luciferic" by, although I have read numerous things here, on occultforums, etc.) doesn't use ceremonial practices, but in the Goetic Sorcery part, he does, and I think in the vampyric part he does also. I can't think of any others, as I haven't read every single page, but have for the most part read most of the book. And I would say that his sources are accurate, but I can't say for 100% sure, but will read the books in his biblio soon!

Thanks,
~Christopher

[...]

woooow.. conjuration.. that is totally interesting.
What kind of potential is there (self-developmental wise,) in the art of conjuration?
If I ever felt like I had discipline enough... (which will never happen, but theoretically,) do you think I could 'summon' ancient adepts and request that they 'open me up' or 'teach' me or anything like that? I don't think I would ever do it, because my fear of failure, and lack of dedication... but it might be cool if I ever pull my head out of my ass...

Is some level of astral projection necessary to do this sort of thing? I can't astral porject for shit...

anyone have cool anecdotes??? ever summon a super-powerful spirit, (like maybe an immortal or something???)

[frater luciferi]

it would be more then odvious to adopt the inverted star as the symbol of lucifer- as he is the morning star, and througout esoteric currents the inverted star is the symbol of the morning star. Much as the swastika had been maligned by malevolant occutists in its usage, the meaning of the inverted star had been a bit washed in the "image" of a famous group of users. But within masonry--- a treasure trove for those hungry in finding esoteric morsels, it is quite adament in the "true" meaning of the star.

It works best in my practices and i usually try to summon lucifer at the point when venus is visable- between the last few minutes of night and the birth of the dawn- which where i live is about 4:20 pacific standard time. Ironic enough is that the NW united states has the best weed in the world. but if lucifer is to be understood as a divine androgyne between the symbols of masculine- ie the sun, and feminine ie the moon? and in a way their union- a popular depiction within hermetic interpritation of the original sumerian context- ie the intertwined serpent, etc. etc. which may lay light to the true function of hermetic structure in leu of the original source material.

other things that relate to lucifer is the kabbalic number 888, which might be used in the ritual to form around syncronicity! which is very very important thing to pay attention to when dealing with the forces of the universe- if the action of the user fits the law of relation with it , it will cause change.

meh, only my two cents.

[Ðanisty]

I agree with you about summoning at dawn. In my experience, it's been the most effective time of day. Plus, I just feel good at that time even though I'm a night person, I love getting up before the sun rises and watching it all happen. Then I go back to bed...lol.