Would a thread like Spontaneous Combustion fit here?

[Copuldaemon]

And if not, either way, what are your thoughts on the matter. I think it's an incredible yet mysterious way to go ontop of messed up.
There's more I could write but I am eating dinner and I don't want to get sloppy sauce on self or keys.
Okay, let me fondle this napkin, okay now let's see. I haven't heard anything on the subject in a minute but I have seen photos where the victims remains were nothing but a pile of ash and two feet (usually in their socks and shoes).
I think these unfortunate people were pyropathic? and they didn't know how to use their gift, or know that they had it, and probably at high stress points (in their case, the highest) they burned up.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

For me the Slow Wick Theory is a satisfactory explanation. This form of combustion can only occur under rare conditions, where the room is badly ventilated, hence its rarity. One gust of air and the result would be a normal fire, and no mystery.

[m1thr0s]

I suppose the methane theory would be disturbing to anyone with excessive gas...

I honestly haven't been able to sort this one out because the data is just too conflicting. What we have been told to have occured vs what scientists have proposed as solutions just don't add up...either one data is grossly exaggerated or the other is grossly oblivious and it's pretty damn hard for anyone in the middle to sort out which is which...

I only turn to occult explanations when all other explanations have been exhausted because to me natural phenomenum is all magickal phenomenum anyway, so I have no fear of it and I don't have any need to devalue it just to stroke my comfort zones.

But in this case, we just don't have the facts we need in my view...somebody needs to tell the truth for once or we'll never know what's really going on here. I have heard of temperatures way hotter than could ever be explained by the wick theory for instance...but are these accounts accurate? who knows...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

I suppose the methane theory would be disturbing to anyone with excessive gas...


:mlaugh:

One theory is that anyone working with energy might be able to build up so much heat and energy that they go this way. Not sure how farfetched that is standing on its own, but add a few other factors to it and its a small possibility I suppose.

[Kain]

One theory is that anyone working with energy might be able to build up so much heat and energy that they go this way. You know, I've actually burnt myself with energy physically quite often throughout the years and at certain times quite appalingly also, as I have discussed elsewhere. There have been times where I stop a working short because I feel I am a few steps from igniting altogether...I don't know if this feeling is simply my subjective perception at the time although I have seen excessive physical manifestations of heat through subtle energy and it's a quite real factor in my view. The most important and most powerful is the direct connection between Void and matter as I have elsewhere referred to. This releases an absolutely immense amount of energy which heats the matter part incredibly fast and forcefully. Now, the "matter" part can be either subtle matter or gross matter, depending on the particular heights one has built one's system at (and one's abilities of conveyance). I have no idea how spontaneous combustion may work really, however this is a factor I felt was worth communicating on the subject.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

so...short of backing off (which you seem to have been able to sort out), are there any other ways of mediating this Kain? Can you ground differently or approach it differently for instance? I guess I am fishing for the mental controls here...is there some way to position your mind so as to better mediate this heat?

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Gwaddyn Oddaith, the soles of his feet emitted sparks of fire when they struck upon things hard, like the heated mass when drawn out of the forge. He cleared the way for Arthur when he came to any stoppage.

Cai had this peculiarity, that his breath lasted nine nights and nine days under water, and he could exist nine nights and nine days without sleep. A wound from Cai's sword no physician could heal. Very subtle was Cai. When it pleased him he could render himself as tall as the highest tree in the forest. And he had another peculiarity,--so great was the heat of his nature, that, when it rained hardest, whatever he carried remained dry for a handbreadth above and a handbreadth below his hand; and when his companions were coldest, it was to them as fuel with which to light their fire.

-The Tale of Culhwch and Olwen

[Kain]

so...short of backing off (which you seem to have been able to sort out), are there any other ways of mediating this Kain? Can you ground differently or approach it differently for instance? I guess I am fishing for the mental controls here...is there some way to position your mind so as to better mediate this heat?Yes, there is. The problem is not so much the generation itself but the erroneous posture (asana) when conducting the said generation that causes the problem, as the generated energy and heat are brought in the wrong environment and height. If done correctly, this can be a standard (albeit very large) energy charge, healthily built and conveyed to one's desired ends.

Let me try to put this better in order to be more clear:

The problem with such spontaneous heat is that one has bumped on a very potent and promising reservoir of raw energy/power, yet the conveyance of that energy is wrong as the current anatomical configuration cannot successfully hold it without having it ground upon one's own respective person. It is similar to generating more energy than you can handle, thus needing to ground it. However, the energy has been conveyed too low (or built too low) so it cannot go anywhere "else" apart from your physical body, as any other viable relocation should have been negotiated in higher ether to be successfully conveyed. The lower and closer to matter you play, the less options you have space-wise, especially when working with manifestational/grounding techniques. Sort of like having missed one's exit on a motorway and thus now simply following resonance downwards to the very end of the line and final exit point.

So in order to avoid it from occuring, a correct and equally powerful reservoir for it all to flow (not just in geometry, but also in sturdiness of construction) needs to be built. The problem with Void however, is that it is non quantifiable so it can sufficiently match any construct you provide it with if you venture deep enough into it, as it is the counterpart of Form itself. So one should learn not to go too far and not to directly stick together things that are naturally *too* far apart. My worst burns have come about by introducing me physically to this sort of influence by mistake, and this is due to the fact that physical matter is way to far from that condition and bringing them face to face brings about a huge shortcircuit, where one's body unfortunately serves as the cable. Such vulgar connections should be avoided.

So the reservoir and condition of mind must act correctly in order to prevent this from occuring, and always stay conscious of not bringing too opposite substances together directly and without the appropriate caution. Unicursal shapes also help, as the real burn is bound to happen if any unnatural stops are done at any point along the way. However the problem remains that, if conveyed too low, the charge will have a mininmum of choices concerning grounding, especially when working with parallel anatomies.

I hope this makes more sense m1thr0s. Please tell me if I am being unclear. The bottom line is that there isn't anything more to this rather than a wrong move on the energy manipulator's part, so if handled with caution one wouldn't have such a thing occur. Of course, the amount of caution needed is relative with the intensity of the charges one is working with, and the severity of the backlash if such a wrong move is made. Note that such a phenomenon is not too prone to occur when we move upwards in a parallel fashion however, but when trying to consciously encompass the whole exapanse of universal polarity in *one* polarity, our polarity, thus trying to weave bodies belonging to different planes together as different stratums of the same body, being conscious of all of the stratums as "body parts". Since this technique consciously works on a system of more distant poles, it is more prone to accidentally shortcircuit.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

Ok...I think I get all of that (thanks). But let me ask you this then because I know you have worked with the Tetractys etc and fields and so on. It has been my experience that these things successfully plug that gap...that is...they provide the intermediary required to span these depths, heights etc... I have actually arrived at the conclusion over time that what you are describing regarding the physical body may also be applied to the Tree of Life itself, ie, there are certain velocities & magnitudes that will crush it like a toothpick if not for the stellar dynamic of the TwinStar...again providing an intermediary...even to the Tree of Life itself.

So I guess one thing I am asking then is have you run into any of this kind of problem since working with the Tetractys and variant forms? Personally I have not had any trouble of this sort and feel remarkably unconcerned regarding Abyss or Void of any kind...but I do not typically work via Kundalini, so I am not versed in all that kind of phenomena...it seems to me that since you apparently are already able to access this kind of energy more than most people I have met...you are in a prime position to verify that premise. Based upon the mathematics itself...this appears to be one of the really critical aspects of the Tetractys in general...that it is one of the very few things we have access to that can stabilize real and whole universal continuum without crapping out halfway in and leaving us standing there with our dic(tionary)'s in our hands...

And to a large extent it achieves this because it is itself a physical body system and not just a thought-construct per se.

If this seems a little off the trail to some I will bring it all home. Insofar as some amount of spontaneous combustion phenomena may be akin to what the tantrics call "kriyas" (energy knots, basically), it may be that certain nervous system blockages are actually partly to blame in some of these cases. It is very rare that the Kundalini serpent would ignite all by itself but if it does so and it veers out of control, intense heat (or cold) can be one of its well observed consequences...sufficient to literally incinerate a human being in a worst case scenario...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

If this seems a little off the trail to some I will bring it all home. Insofar as some amount of spontaneous combustion phenomena may be akin to what the tantrics call "kriyas" (energy knots, basically), it may be that certain nervous system blockages are actually partly to blame in some of these cases. It is very rare that the Kundalini serpent would ignite all by itself but if it does so and it veers out of control, intense heat (or cold) can be one of its well observed consequences...sufficient to literally incinerate a human being in a worst case scenario...First of all, I should say that this is a quite accurate comment m1thr0s. As I've previously mentioned, I initially started researching and working on Kundalini after having it awaken on me spontaneously and unconsciously, taking a huge bite off my spine/back that was similar to a partial combustion and in fact had strong ramiffications to all the nerves in my body for a very long time. So Kundalini work in general works on the premise of moderated combustion, and if such a combustion becomes unmoderated for whatever reason it can very much be sufficient for literally incinerating a human being physically. The blockages should be cleaned prior to awakening the Serpent itself (or cleaned throguh the application of the Serpent and while maintaining control), for if it becomes awakened and becomes diverted by blockages, such effects certainly arise and their potency depends on the potency of the initial awakening.
Ok...I think I get all of that (thanks). But let me ask you this then because I know you have worked with the Tetractys etc and fields and so on. It has been my experience that these things successfully plug that gap...that is...they provide the intermediary required to span these depths, heights etc... I have actually arrived at the conclusion over time that what you are describing regarding the physical body may also be applied to the Tree of Life itself, ie, there are certain velocities & magnitudes that will crush it like a toothpick if not for the stellar dynamic of the TwinStar...again providing an intermediary...even to the Tree of Life itself.

So I guess one thing I am asking then is have you run into any of this kind of problem since working with the Tetractys and variant forms? Personally I have not had any trouble of this sort and feel remarkably unconcerned regarding Abyss or Void of any kind...but I do not typically work via Kundalini, so I am not versed in all that kind of phenomena...it seems to me that since you apparently are already able to access this kind of energy more than most people I have met...you are in a prime position to verify that premise. Based upon the mathematics itself...this appears to be one of the really critical aspects of the Tetractys in general...that it is one of the very few things we have access to that can stabilize real and whole universal continuum without crapping out halfway in and leaving us standing there with our dic(tionary)'s in our hands...

And to a large extent it achieves this because it is itself a physical body system and not just a thought-construct per se.This is a very interesting question you bring up m1thr0s. Indeed I have worked with the Tetractys and with assorted field work and the results are certainly very interesting. Kundalini makes things slightly different however, and I'm still trying to reconcile all that in really high altitudes.

First of all, Kundalini is a force that opperates deeply through the principle of laya, or Dissolution. The way it allows access to the Void while on an ascending motion is through a thinning of the concept of Form, as we are all the more approaching the Unmanifest in it's own terms. Kundalini itself is originally situated in the other side of the equation, that of the grossest part of Materialization (Earth), and is meant to be awakened through generated heat so that it ignites and then retracts manifestation backwards (while taking the practitioner up with it). So in this method, shortcircuits are avoided by having Form thinning out appropriately for the altitude we are currently situated at. If for whatever reason as one ascends one inhibits the thinning action if Kundalini the result is the bringing close to the Void of a formation/construct that belongs lower, which results in a "lightning" of sorts through the voltage created.

I have actually arrived at the conclusion over time that what you are describing regarding the physical body may also be applied to the Tree of Life itself, ie, there are certain velocities & magnitudes that will crush it like a toothpick if not for the stellar dynamic of the TwinStar...again providing an intermediary...even to the Tree of Life itself.

...

And to a large extent it achieves this because it is itself a physical body system and not just a thought-construct per se.So what is needed is indeed an intermediate in order to approach those depths to their fullest, as you ssaid yourself m1thr0s. However, even though the TwinStar's and Tetractys's ability to handle velocities and heights of this sort is extremely interesting, the main problem that can still be met under certain conditions in this setting (in my view) is that, as you say, the Tetractys is a physical body. Let me expand on this a bit:

The Void (not so sure if this applies to the Abyss, as it works within the realm of Manifestation) functions as the counter-pole of Form itself. So between those two poles the interplay brings about an immense multitude of different densities of Form, and of course different shapes/formations. However, Form itself still remains the opposite of the Void principle, thus approaching it while possessing any form of construct still results in an explosive energy release. Now, this release can certainly be tapped and used for whatever purposes one desires and the Tetractys is great for achieving that, however it still remains a technological construct subject to it's respective Form, so like all forms it attains a certain height between the two poles of Form and Formlessness. By trying to go higher, the explosive release becomes more violent as Form does not ordinarilly venture in such heights. And if one persists to go heigher, it is not the formation's shape that matters any more at all but it's inherent constitution (which is now completely polarized with it's surroundings and suffers electric evacuations).

So here's my own question m1thr0s: since the Tetractys serves as a subtler construct that superimposes that of the Tree in order to mediate the properities of the Void, doesn't the Tetractys itself pertain to Form ultimately? If so, this method's mathematics point to the conclusion that the Void can always be "courted" at our highest crown and even tapped all the more directly, but never outright attained (unless only as our highest conscious co-ordinate), Man being between Heaven and Earth. If so, then the Tetractys is simply used in a different altitude and this resolves my complication. What do you think?

Kain

[m1thr0s]

These are powerful mysteries Kain and to be candid, none of us can very well pretend to have sorted it all out and still be confined within our human forms, yet there are several important points that we can refer to that may help to guide us here.

The first thing that should be considered is the Jen principle itself, whose distinguishing characteristic mathematically is that it always stands opposite to itself as well as between itself. Thus the Jen is both polar and central to itself in all cases. Because of this it is uniquely capable of equilibrating both Nothing and Everything within itself. The TwinStar itself is built from this principle...it is rooted in the Jen. By definition, this tells us that it is uniquely capable of actually inhabiting the Void...indeed...this is its elemental Homeground.

One of the things to consider as to how such a thing might even be possible is that what makes it possible for any thing to inhabit the Void is Indistinguishability. The TwinStar is both a Form and a principle of Form at the same time, very similar to the Golden Ratio. We are none of us the Golden Ratio itself, yet its principle guides and governs our physical beings. It's Form is all over the place in a technical sense...its form is mathematically infinite, the same as the TwinStar. Being mathematically infinite, it is not possible to confine it at just one place and say "this is its form", since as soon as we have asserted this it springs up in infinite other places as well. A thing can inhabit Nothing where it is impossible to distinguish it from Nothing. A thing can be defined as indistinguishable from Nothing where it is impossible to restrict it to any set value of Thing. If you cannot altogether define a thing, you can also not effectively distinguish it. If it resides within all things...even all potential things...there is finally no "it" to be distinguished. Certain principles of Form are able to successfully accomodate this, though there are not many of them.

I am of the opinion that the TwinStar is such a principle and is both rooted in the Jen and perfectly at home in Nothing, which we also refer to as the Void, although I am a bit more partial to the term Oblivion myself.

One of the parallels we find to this dynamic lies within the "eye" form of the Gods as depicted in ancient Egypt. When a God "stands down" it assumes its recognizeable form, yet when it collects itself back up again, it assumes its "eye" form, such as the Eye of Horus etc. When it resides within in its Eye form it is indistinguishable and we cannot say Horus is here or there or anywhere specifically. At that altitude, he/she/it is everywhere. Being "everywhere" is mathematically equivalent to being "nowhere" because we are simply unable to identify any "where" at all corresponding to its presence. This is how the TwinStar functions in my view as well. It is capable of "standing down" where it assumes a recognizeable form and collecting back up where its form is infinite. At the level of Elements, all of this is made possible by the Jen, which we know to be synonymous with *Spirit* and/or *Intelligence* as defined historically.

Having said all of that. I do believe there remains something within the Void that remains forever incomprehensible to intelligence itself. This is perhaps the most lofty paradox I know of because in a technical sense this "Mystery Principle" is the same as Intelligence itself, yet I believe it remains somehow aloof and it is this "aloofness" that allows for an infinite spontanaety in existence itself...even at the very highest levels of Being. It is my belief that without this Mystery Principle, life soon ceases to be of any real interest to the living. The price of all our attainment would be an intollerable boredom and I do not believe that this ever actually occurs owing to this Mystery Principle which insures that Nothingness itself retains both individuality and spontanety of action. Even Nothing cannot second-guess with absolute precision what it will do next in my view. But this is very "out there" stuff and I only mention it in passing for the moment.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

OK, I'm following this completely. This is a very interesting subject m1thr0s. Since I have quite a lot of thoughts on the subject I'm taking the liberty to transplant the conversation in a more suitable place, namely here (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=903).

Kain

[m1thr0s]

good call Kain..I think this one outgrew its britches...

m1thr0s