What's your MA?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I do Shotokan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokan) with this club (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1580673281).

As a kid I did some Wu Shu Kwan (http://www.wushukwan.com/) and in Berlin I got the opportunity of doing Monkey Kung-Fu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Kung_Fu).

[Zaii]

Does your club do full contact sparring? I'm only familiar with Kyokushin as far as karate goes.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Does your club do full contact sparring? I'm only familiar with Kyokushin as far as karate goes.

To some extent in the dojo, moreso in competition. Within the dojo actually punching someone in the face instead of stopping the fist a cm or so away from its target would be considered very sloppy. Punches, kicks and blocks to other parts of the body tend to approach full contact. Seniority dictates just how rough it's going to be.

[Okazaki Castle]

MA (Cantab.) - doesn't come with a subject-specific title though....

Beyond that, do present moment No-Mind technique mostly. Pretty much came up with it myself, at least my specific style thereof... Prior training in jiu-jitsu, Aikido, judo and some kung-fu as a kid, hardcore chinese old school stuff between about 23-27, ninjutsu too obviously. But I am not an MMA (Mixed Martial Artist). I am a purist, as in Khalsa-ji. I just do what works. But, that having been said, I really should dedicate some time to learning more formal techniques and learning them well. I've tended to be quite slack and arrogant in that way, cruising along Bourne-identity style on past lives and vampyric theft technique and stuff...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Oblio]

Seniority dictates just how rough it's going to be.

Hehe, I like that. It's so true :D

While we would pull a punch with less adept students, those of the same level are expected to block, and block well, so contact if/when they miss is warranted.

I do Shaolin Kung Fu (Thieu Lam Quyen - my sifu is Vietnamese.. but he learnt traditional Shaolin, not Viet style, like Vo Vi Nam), we also practice Qi Kung/meditation. There are lots of similarities between our style and Tsai Li Fut, if that helps locate anyone..

I did some Judo when I was young (9 or 10), which was exceptionally helpful (and I still have a feel for it), and then at about 13 I started Karate (Go Ju Ryu), followed by boxing for a few months at 14.. but I stopped physical martial arts when I started studying the occult.. but I've been back in it with Shaolin for over 6 years now.

[Nuhad418]

I took the martial application of the Yang Style Taiji for 5 years then took about the same time off and now I'm back training in it again. I took Judo for a while as a kid but a girl with long nails kicked my ass so I dropped it :laugh:

[Anibis]

I did a little bit of Tae Kwon Do when I was in High School, and more recently I did Jeet Kun Do for about 6 Months. The only MA that I think I'll always be into is Tai Chi. Circus skill are more my focus than martial arts. I call them 'Mercurial arts', which they are....
-Ibisis

[Okazaki Castle]

Can you tumble Ibisis? Things like summersaults, flips, etc...? Always wanted to learn that stuff myself...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Can you tumble Ibisis? Things like summersaults, flips, etc...? Always wanted to learn that stuff myself...

all the best,
Oazaki.

Yeah, if I was a kid again I'd definately dedicate some time to gymnastics. Too late now, of course. Free Running looks pretty damn cool as well.

[Okazaki Castle]

Ho yeah. Le Parkour is definitely appropriate action hero stuff. One option there is to tune into the intelligences and positions in mindgrid (roles) of being very competent at it and then just doing what comes. Copying cats is good for that one too. Leaps and landings come relatively easily I found, and you can actually jump much further than is normally ocnsidered safe by most people. Jump out as well as down and then roll on landing to dissipate the force. That's about the only principle you need on that one I found...

Anyway, it's never too late! Could I interest you in physical immortality?

http://www.onlineseats.com/upload/theater/167_the_Lestatcol.jpg

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

One option there is to tune into the intelligences and positions in mindgrid (roles) of being very competent at it and then just doing what comes. Copying cats is good for that one too. Leaps and landings come relatively easily I found, and you can actually jump much further than is normally ocnsidered safe by most people. Jump out as well as down and then roll on landing to dissipate the force. That's about the only principle you need on that one I found...

Anyway, it's never too late! Could I interest you in physical immortality?



Physical immortality? You're trying to sell ice to an Inuit here.
Climbing, jumping and landing's a piece of cake. I used to do semi-gymnastic like that in my teens as a money earner, but I won't go into that as I was never caught ;)
What I'm refering to is the more complicated skills of a gymnast, the things you can only prepare your body for as a kid.

[Okazaki Castle]

Ah, well, the past does not physically exist anymore. Therefore you can de-engineer and recombine the elements which went to compose it to produce a different physical past on which the presnt timeline configuration is based. That way, you can change what your phsyical body did in the past, for example. Doesn't change your head and memories though as you cross-over the physical to the mental and the mental to the physical. Can only do it in a few areas at a time and need some strong enough bind in your actually-remembered pas to bind it to. But it works. Takes time though. As in months to get noticeable results. But over a year or two, is quite dramatic the changes it can effect...

Interested?

Do tell on your side of immortality practices, I'm always interested in such...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Ah, well, the past does not physically exist anymore.

Yes it does. In the past.

Therefore you can de-engineer and recombine the elements which went to compose it to produce a different physical past on which the presnt timeline configuration is based. That way, you can change what your phsyical body did in the past, for example. Doesn't change your head and memories though as you cross-over the physical to the mental and the mental to the physical. Can only do it in a few areas at a time and need some strong enough bind in your actually-remembered pas to bind it to. But it works. Takes time though. As in months to get noticeable results. But over a year or two, is quite dramatic the changes it can effect...

Interested?


I'd rather just invoke the power of gymnastics. Saves time. In the meantime I'll stick to Shotokan.

Do tell on your side of immortality practices, I'm always interested in such...

I Am...

I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock;
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;

[Anibis]

Can you tumble Ibisis? Things like summersaults, flips, etc...? Always wanted to learn that stuff myself...

all the best,
Oazaki.

Acro is not my bit. I do manipulation, ballance, and contortion. I juggle clubs, balls(5), cigar boxes, contact, poi and so on. Unicycle (little bit of Rola Bola and SLackwire). And I do close up and stage magic... Magic is actually the closest thing to an MA... but it all works together. I basically do tricks for a living...
-Ibisis

[Oblio]

Very cool Ibisis.. I love dancing with fire (single long staff, and especially double medium or short). Fire breathing is also incredible! The consciousness involved with performing skillful/dangerous arts is.. magick.


..Ci

I am the god that puts fire in the head...

[Anibis]

I think so Caelum. I don't do staff, but I have been know to spin fire poi, Juggle fire, as well as fire eating and very occaisionally breathing (the most dangerous of the lot...) We have a lantern festival here in August, and My Freinds and I do a big old fire show with drumming and such...
-Ibisis
Edit... haha, of course you are into Circus skills! You an Ozzy! The French, the Australians, the Germans all seem to be really into it nowadays... Vast cultural generalization, yes, but it seems true...

[Oblio]

:)

ha, I don't do Poi - I've tried, but it never gels with my body..

[Anibis]

It develops this great sense of having energy orbits weaving around you... like being a big ole' atom....
-Ibisis

[MythMath]

Poi (actually glowsticks):

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/poispinning.jpg

[Zaii]

Not that some of the aforementioned practices aren't cool, but they aren't really martial arts.

So in the interest of getting back on topic - my martial arts experience largely revolves around an MMA program and medium to full contact sparring with partners and friends. Before that I trained for about 6 months in traditional jujutsu, and I've had some experience with the bujinkan but I really don't consider that martial arts instruction as it's incredibly unrealistic and distorted training; "dry land swimming" at its finest.

[Anibis]

Yeah but they are MA's... (Mercurial Arts). Seriously though, These practices do actually connect with martial arts historically and practically. Poi is basically a double-mace, juggling was often practiced on the battle-fields of ancient China. Often ex soldiers would become travelling performers. Magicians (of the illusionistic variety) have often been enlisted in to various war efforts. All this being said, I agree that going off about Circus is not entirely in line with your intentions as regards this thread so I will personally tone it down... Cheers;
-Ibisis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Hey, it's all Moving Zen to me...

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Then of course there's the ancient Welsh art of Llap Goch (http://www.llapgoch.org.uk/), discovered by Monty Python

http://www.llapgoch.org.uk/llapgoch.gif

[The Tengu]

I have sandan menkyo in Bujinkan Taijutsu.

I also have a 9th gup in Tae Kwon Do, and a white belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. :yes:

[Zaii]

I have sandan menkyo in Bujinkan Taijutsu.

I also have a 9th gup in Tae Kwon Do, and a white belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. :yes:

How do you feel about the BJJ training as it compares with your previous experience?

[Kazahel]

I did Ninjukai Taijutsu on and off for about 10 years. I took a break when I went to remand and also when I was using, but other than that it was my main hobby for awhile. I was best with the katana and kama, but I like the bo as well. I was really good though with what they called part N(from the syllabus).. that was where you had to do bag work with the makiwarras.. Like you would get told to do a number of strikes and kicks, but you were suppose to kinda make it up as you go along, and you had to use footwork to move across the floor with rolls and stuff to cover ground etc. It was pretty cool fun and the combos were good because you'd stand between two bags and hit both, then maybe roll or leap over something to the makiwarra etc.. We also sparred with full body gear on... like chest pads,leg pads,head gear(mouth gaurd)and finger-less gloves. So we were pretty much allowed to go for whatever strikes we wanted(but not full power of course). We mainly practised three hit combos lots.. so we just did as many three hit combos as we could think of. That was really fun stuff.. also when we trained we always trained against two attackers. So it was always two on one, so one would strike and you'd three hit combo them, then the other would strike and we would throw them and do a finishing strike. You also had to keep moving and keeping the other attacker infront of you because if they could get behind you they were allowed to strike. So yeah that was fun and was a pretty good way to train because it kept you moving and getting in and out of range quickly. Anyway..

Also around the same time I started Ninjukai Taijutsu I did my Reiki 1, because I thought they would go well together because of ki.

Anyway here is where I trained.. http://www.ninjukai.com.au/ :ninja:

[Zaii]

I did Ninjukai Taijutsu on and off for about 10 years. I took a break when I went to remand and also when I was using, but other than that it was my main hobby for awhile. I was best with the katana and kama, but I like the bo as well. I was really good though with what they called part N(from the syllabus).. that was where you had to do bag work with the makiwarras.. Like you would get told to do a number of strikes and kicks, but you were suppose to kinda make it up as you go along, and you had to use footwork to move across the floor with rolls and stuff to cover ground etc. It was pretty cool fun and the combos were good because you'd stand between two bags and hit both, then maybe roll or leap over something to the makiwarra etc.. We also sparred with full body gear on... like chest pads,leg pads,head gear(mouth gaurd)and finger-less gloves. So we were pretty much allowed to go for whatever strikes we wanted(but not full power of course). We mainly practised three hit combos lots.. so we just did as many three hit combos as we could think of. That was really fun stuff.. also when we trained we always trained against two attackers. So it was always two on one, so one would strike and you'd three hit combo them, then the other would strike and we would throw them and do a finishing strike. You also had to keep moving and keeping the other attacker infront of you because if they could get behind you they were allowed to strike. So yeah that was fun and was a pretty good way to train because it kept you moving and getting in and out of range quickly. Anyway..

Also around the same time I started Ninjukai Taijutsu I did my Reiki 1, because I thought they would go well together because of ki.

Anyway here is where I trained.. http://www.ninjukai.com.au/ :ninja:

I don't get it. You trained with multiple attackers, but they weren't both actually allowed to attack you at the same time?

Did these three hit combos always drop your attacker, or was that a default signal for them to stop?

I'm also curious what the point of all that padding is if you never did full powered techniques.

Could you tell me what exactly is happening in this picture?

http://i5.tinypic.com/30bfi34.jpg

Also, why are some of the gis........camouflage?

[The Tengu]

How do you feel about the BJJ training as it compares with your previous experience?BJJ training is excellent for what it is. I wouldn't say BJJ really compares with my previous training because it's more complimentary to other systems than contradictory. That is, it fits in well with other martial systems because there are so many martial systems that just don't do any real ground fighting.

It's easy to use BJJ to fill in the gaps.

[Kazahel]

I don't get it. You trained with multiple attackers, but they weren't both actually allowed to attack you at the same time? They were allowed to strike but not suppose to really get in the way of the main attacker.. just to make aware of the distance. So they could hit if they were behind but mostly that didnt happen because you keep them both infront. So you kinda had to wait for the main attack then do a combo then turn to take on the other who would come in with maybe a knife attack or something. So it was more like sparring with one then quickly throwing the other and finishing him, then vise versa.

Did these three hit combos always drop your attacker, or was that a default signal for them to stop? Default signal.. but like it was training... if we didnt have pads on a three hit combo is enough to really hurt, so the default.. was. It was also like the signal for the other attacker to have a stab, so to speak.

I'm also curious what the point of all that padding is if you never did full powered techniques. You need it hey... if you get hit in the head or kicked in the groin you need mouth guards and padding.. and when you are TRAINING... you dont want to place full power in a head strike.. thats not very nice for your training partners hey.. I mean.. some are bigger and smaller than others and its not nice to smash them in the face as hard as you can. Anotherwords even with all that padding if I did just a decent front thrust kick into the groin they are still going down. And thats not very nice to do when your training for awhile. We used full power on bag work instead because if we used full power on our partners we would hurt them basically. So we only used maybe 75% power, and we used the padding so we didnt get hurt. I mean... 75% isnt always the same to everyone hey. We also used groin guards which I forgot to put in. So we were pretty padded up and 75% power is easy enough to sparr/train with without worrying of being.. dropped.

Could you tell me what exactly is happening in this picture?

http://i5.tinypic.com/30bfi34.jpg

Also, why are some of the gis........camouflage? What do you want me to say? It looks like someone is doing a jump kick while another is going for a foot stomp to the guy whos been locked up with a armbar/throat pressure. I guess I mainly look at it like a showy picture to just entice people to join. Not training as much. But it could be for all I know(cause you cant watch them train at that level)... and I didnt get up to brown belt.. I only got red.. and I know it gets alot harder and more full on the higher you go. It takes ages to go up belts at that stage too.

And the camo gis were just another choice of gi. Some liked camo some liked black. Same as for swords... most used katanas but some used ninjatos. Just a choice thing.

[Logos]

My MA is actually a pending MS in History of Science and Technology.

And, no, I'm not being facetious. I studied Tae Kwon Do for a while and, yes, I see a strange, albeit aloof, connection between martial arts and scholarship.

Observation is the key.

-Logos

[m1thr0s]

I never actually studied martial arts formally. I had a very precarious childhood that didn't really allow for anything so stable as that and no family or money to put out for it anyway.

so I'm out of the loop, which is curious, since "psychic self-defense" has nevertheless always been a pretty big deal with me and I certainly grew up in some very dangerous neighborhoods etc. Being a skinny white boy in Oakland California with no gang to back me up who had to walk just about everywhere I went rather intensified my awareness of my environment I think. Guns popping off everywhere and everybody looking for some easy niche to exploit etc...

So I tend to think of the Mind itself as my principal Martial Art...although people don't seem to trust it much I still believe awareness is ultimately anybody's surest survival skill. I believe I think very much like a martial artist...I just don't know squat about fighting in this way. I am also not terribly concerned about it. I never really believed it made anybody all that much safer or anything...it would be nice to have, but is not absolutely essential.

Virtually all of the friends I had that got into martial arts as I was growing up wound up being a lot more intimately involved with street violence than I ever was, even though it was all around me all the time. Looking back, I think I must have somehow mastered invisibility without knowing it as such. I can't believe some of the places I used to hang out at in the late hours etc. The only time I ever felt threatened was when I had some stupid ass job that limited my freedom of motion, so I never kept those jobs for very long and no amount of martial arts training would have made much difference anyway, so far as that goes.

I like the martial arts...don't get me wrong. If I could have pursued it more I think I would have. But I also think they have become romanticized to a ludicrous degree which has pretty much turned every worthless punk into a godamm lethal weapon. I was right there in the front row as it all came flooding into this country. As usual we acquired a lot of the power without any of the wisdom to balance it out. I don't see things as being very much different today really. I think maybe dojos themselves should be a little more discriminating than they are but unfortunately it's easy money in the USA at least. There's always a buck to be made off of fear and insecurity and that's pretty much exactly what has happened in my view.

Not intending to piss on anybody's parade or anything...
Individuals can still rise above all of that but the reality is that they only very rarely do.
Butchery is still butchery no matter how you dress it up and when the art is taught this way, that's pretty much what you get.

m1thr0s

[Nuhad418]

Butchery is still butchery no matter how you dress it up and when the art is taught this way, that's pretty much what you get.

m1thr0s

That's exactly it. In my experience the instructor is the key, at least in the early years. Mine is fond of saying "Sigh. You get the students you deserve" when I rib him for something. Of course he isn't looking for followers or warriors in training but sinserity. The reverse of that statement is also true and I think you can find many people who have gotten the instructors they deserve. HAS KARATE KID TAUGHT US NOTHING!? GO Cobra Kai!! :rofl:

[m1thr0s]

I have a special fondness for staff. I could watch a good staff master work all day and not get bored with it. I appreciate the meditation aspect of the martial arts and I can also appreciate the importance of competition...you can't really perfect anything fighting against ghosts! How the hell are you going to deal with such simple things as actually connecting your blows?

Maybe time will sort it all out. One can hope so anyway. I think this whole thing has gravitated westward because it needed to do so, so I am not fatalistic about it or anything. Like many things, it's still a work in progress I think.

m1thr0s

[Nuhad418]

I have a special fondness for staff. I could watch a good staff master work all day and not get bored with it. I appreciate the meditation aspect of the martial arts and I can also appreciate the importance of competition...you can't really perfect anything fighting against ghosts! How the hell are you going to deal with such simple things as actually connecting your blows?

Maybe time will sort it all out. One can hope so anyway. I think this whole thing has gravitated westward because it needed to do so, so I am not fatalistic about it or anything. Like many things, it's still a work in progress I think.

m1thr0s

There are martial issues such as contacting with a fast and heavy moving object to be sure. Weapons, especially larger ones like staff and sword are great, especially in the internal arts, as they amplify the movement of the body. I millimeter off in the hand will lead to a centimeter on the weapon. Fascinating all the same.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I like MA for the Moving Zen (katas) and the exercise (Im not a gymn person). Most fights in this country happen at night, and being night blind there's not a lot MA can do for me in that respect.

In real fight situations Ive always found psyching people out is effective enough, sometimes to the point of petrifying them. Most half-assed assailants start to doubt themselves when A) you're still standing, B) you're not crying, C) You smear the blood coming out of your nose all over your face, D) Instead of using the beer bottle in your hand as a weapon, you place cit carefully on the ground, and E) you look really, really pissed off (although admittedly, this is followed by F) you kick the shit out of them).

[Zaii]

Karate kid.

The movie that taught a generation that you didn't need athletic conditioning or real skill to defeat conditioned and trained fighters, you just needed to know how to paint fences, wax cars, and to absorb the vague things your possibly asian instructor tells you!!! :eek:

But pop culture goofiness aside, yes, some people get out of hand with martial training, but it's like anything else in the culture of violence and disrespect fostered in america. Tools get misused.

This is one reason I favor MMA programs. They're generally a bit more expensive which discourages the guy who just wants to get a quick fix as to how to better bully his peers, and require dedication because if you don't train regularly you will be left behind. Also most anyone who -genuinely- trains is not out starting fights, because they're too damned bruised up from four-six days a week of practice to want to tussle with anyone.

Plus as far as the term "lethal weapon" goes, I think the ability of martial artists has been greatly exaggerated through cinema and pop culture. The human body is actually pretty damned tough, especially when you're coming at it with bare fists. I can't stand all these people who claim they're "too deadly" to spar, which really means that they don't have any martial ability at all, because if they had "deadly skills", then they would have the self mastery to restrain themselves in a friendly match.

Oh, and Ci Celli Ddu, I've been meaning to ask you, you use the term Moving Zen pretty frequently. I don't intend this to sound disrespectful or sarcastic, but as my main practice is zazen, I'm curious as to how you mean that. How is "moving zen" different than say eating zen, or shitting zen, for example?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Oh, and Ci Celli Ddu, I've been meaning to ask you, you use the term Moving Zen pretty frequently. I don't intend this to sound disrespectful or sarcastic, but as my main practice is zazen, I'm curious as to how you mean that. How is "moving zen" different than say eating zen, or shitting zen, for example?

Im surprised you haven't come across the term before. Katas are "Moving" Zen in the medatative sense, as opposed to the motionless Zazen.

[Zaii]

You have to excuse me, I'm just a little tweaked with all the poppy cliched empty uses of the word Zen in relation to well....everything, that I needed some clarity as to what exactly you meant.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Actually come to think of it it might be a term used more in Karate circles than elsewhere. Im just so used to using it that I expect everyone else to be familiar with the term.

[league]

I study three forms in my teen years...a long time ago. i learned alot about myself and focus from it.

[Naomi]

" I have a special fondness for staff. I could watch a good staff master work all day and not get bored with it"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! OMG!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

::cackles insanely:::


Edit:

Oh yeah your other post was good, too, I agree with that. i was trying to seriously reply but I just totally forgot my intelligence....bbl

[The Tengu]

I like the martial arts...don't get me wrong. If I could have pursued it more I think I would have. But I also think they have become romanticized to a ludicrous degree which has pretty much turned every worthless punk into a godamm lethal weapon. I was right there in the front row as it all came flooding into this country. As usual we acquired a lot of the power without any of the wisdom to balance it out. I don't see things as being very much different today really. I think maybe dojos themselves should be a little more discriminating than they are but unfortunately it's easy money in the USA at least. There's always a buck to be made off of fear and insecurity and that's pretty much exactly what has happened in my view.

Not intending to piss on anybody's parade or anything...
Individuals can still rise above all of that but the reality is that they only very rarely do.
Butchery is still butchery no matter how you dress it up and when the art is taught this way, that's pretty much what you get.

m1thr0sThese punks you talk about never do stick around in any real martial arts schools. I have seen every type come and go and have had the honor of tossing many a punk around during their "introductory class". Hell, we even had one walk up to the mat and challenge one of our students. It was pretty damn funny.

Anyhow, the people who are in it for the wrong reasons don't take much from their 1 month of lessons; they stepped onto the mat as losers, and left the mat as losers. There isn't much that can be learned in that short of a time. They could have learned just as much from a book at the library.

There is a difference between a martial art and a martial sport. I think you may be referring to the latter.

As far as fear and insecurity goes... some of us refuse to be helpless. It takes a stronger person not to be a sheep.

[Naomi]

http://i5.tinypic.com/30bfi34.jpg[/IMG]

Also, why are some of the gis........camouflage?

They're trying to impress chicks, except for the guy in camo, he's trying to hide from them.

[m1thr0s]

As far as fear and insecurity goes... some of us refuse to be helpless. It takes a stronger person not to be a sheep.Sure...I understand the attraction. As for the distinction between art & sport, I am reasonably sure there is something to that as well although I think that too much emphasis is placed on the "sport" in general.

The martial arts have been evolving on a global scale for what...a couple of thousand years or something? Maybe even more. My feeling is simply that they are an integrated part of an overall movement in consciousness itself and over the next 1000 years we are likely to see a lot more gravitation into the metaphysical than we have seen up to this point. The rumblings are already there and there is a fair amount of doctrine established but there is more to come I think since ANY legitimate art form will ultimately take the time required to incorporate important breakthroughs in any other branch of knowledge generally.

The Mind itself is a martial art form in my view, just as Meditation is a cumulative art/science branching off of the eight limbs of Yoga etc... I have noted what seems to me to be a higher than normal percentage of people attracted to Abrahadabra who also have a fair amount of martial arts training and have wondered at this apparent correlation. If I had to guess it would be that people are recognizing a certain physical/mental strength factor going on here which they are already keenly attuned to. For me, Abrahadabra is a martial art form of its own kind. So I am not ditzing the martial arts here so much as I am pushing the envelope a little...

m1thr0s

[Zaii]

I'm not on board with the division between "martial art" and "martial sport", and I think that any martial that doesn't test its techniques and the skills of its practitioners with the facets of what is commonly called "martial sport" (live sparring with as much contact as possible, frequent pressure tests, as few predetermined-outcome drills as possible, etc) is wasting the time of whoever is learning it.

Without ever using what you learn, It's literally like being a chef with a thousand recipes who never cooks, or the difference between a soccer team that just practices its kicks and drills, and one that actually plays other teams.

[m1thr0s]

which one are you suggesting does not do that Zaii? I was under the impression that a martial sport would be a contact sport, and the martial arts generally are thought of as a contact art form...the art of combat, afterall...

although in general I feel like this distinction may not be very useful. Yoga is sort of in the same boat since it can be looked upon as a sport or an art form really...particularly the more athletic branches.

great avatar btw...

m1thr0s

[Zaii]

Most taught in modern day schools don't, actually. Flicky flick point sparring Tae Kwon Do, almost every school of Aikido, a large number of Karate schools, the majority of gung fu schools, most RBSD "street" programs, the list goes on. Honestly a lot of places just give their students a false sense of security.

[Anibis]

An interesting discussion. I tend to agree with M1, though that there are certain good reasons for giving consideration here to mental martial arts, as well. I think chess stands out as an example of this... In a sense it just extends the notion of range to the metaphysical or the subtle/social... Anyhow, not meaning to derail anything here... I am onboard as well with what you say, Zaii as regards full contact sparring... but not everyone does martial ars to gain combat training persey... A certain amount of it is about simply conditioning the mind/body/spirit to be more robust, resiliant or gracefull, no?
-Ibisis

[Kazahel]

They're trying to impress chicks, except for the guy in camo, he's trying to hide from them.

Actually they also use them because they have a camp which is over the weekend sometimes where they train alittle more. So they use them to teach kinda and to show the difference in how hard it is to see when doing night work. Like they played a game where you had to make it down a hill(in bushland for about a 1.5 km I think)as a small group of about five without being seen or caught by the other groups who were out to get you. So if you had camo gi's on you really couldnt be seen hey. It makes you not like a black spot which can be more noticed. Like I kept losing the guy who was right infront of me because he had one on and I was second in the group who was leading the others.. lol.. so I kept losing him, and at that point I could see what they were for and I wished the guy infront didnt have one on because I couldnt see him at all(and I had to follow him but not right behind him.. we all were seperate but as a group). So yeah the camo gi's were pretty good for being invisible. I always wore black though which was a bummer at the camp because they are thick gi's so they were very hot when we trained outside in the sun. It was alot harder training because there was no mats to use just the ground, but it was pretty cool fun and was just a change out of normal training really.

So yeah.. they also use them to break up the light at night time so you arnt a big black spot.

[Zaii]

Actually they also use them because they have a camp which is over the weekend sometimes where they train alittle more. So they use them to teach kinda and to show the difference in how hard it is to see when doing night work. Like they played a game where you had to make it down a hill(in bushland for about a 1.5 km I think)as a small group of about five without being seen or caught by the other groups who were out to get you. So if you had camo gi's on you really couldnt be seen hey. It makes you not like a black spot which can be more noticed. Like I kept losing the guy who was right infront of me because he had one on and I was second in the group who was leading the others.. lol.. so I kept losing him, and at that point I could see what they were for and I wished the guy infront didnt have one on because I couldnt see him at all(and I had to follow him but not right behind him.. we all were seperate but as a group). So yeah the camo gi's were pretty good for being invisible. I always wore black though which was a bummer at the camp because they are thick gi's so they were very hot when we trained outside in the sun. It was alot harder training because there was no mats to use just the ground, but it was pretty cool fun and was just a change out of normal training really.

So yeah.. they also use them to break up the light at night time so you arnt a big black spot.

What's the point of that training? Do you wear camo on a daily basis? Do you frequently get up to purposes which require you to hide from groups of people in the dark? If it's just a fun game and not called anything more, then more power to you, but if it's supposed to be a training exercise, what are you training for?

[Zaii]

An interesting discussion. I tend to agree with M1, though that there are certain good reasons for giving consideration here to mental martial arts, as well. I think chess stands out as an example of this... In a sense it just extends the notion of range to the metaphysical or the subtle/social... Anyhow, not meaning to derail anything here... I am onboard as well with what you say, Zaii as regards full contact sparring... but not everyone does martial ars to gain combat training persey... A certain amount of it is about simply conditioning the mind/body/spirit to be more robust, resiliant or gracefull, no?
-Ibisis

Totally. There are plenty of reasons people get into martial arts, albeit some of which are goofy. I don't like all the comparison of things to "martial arts", because chess (for example) is not going to teach me how to hurt someone and not get hurt in the process. Sure, it's excellent strategy training, wonderful for training your memory, and a myriad of other things. I myself love chess (though I've been beaten by a 10 year old before), but it is not a martial art. Neither is juggling, acrobatics, etc etc. Not that these arts aren't damned cool, or that they couldn't be incorporated with some form of self defense in some way, they just aren't martial arts by definition.

I don't care if someone only plans to use their MA training to more effectively bake cookies (don't ask me how), it's still the responsibility of the instructor to make sure they can use their martial techniques in a martial situation effectively.

[Anibis]

You're saying that war strategy is not a Martial Art? Chess served the purpose of teaching kings how to go to war... Even now chessmasters often are consulted in military operations. Sounds like what you mean by 'Martial art' is confined to a few combat-training physical disciplines. If I were to class certain arts as 'martial' I would certainly include those that involve all levels of combat, physical or otherwise... I will concede that circus arts are not martial, but that's not my point. If you were a General, Chess WOULD teach you how to hurt and not be hurt... I guess the issue here is how we approach the classification... I would stress etymology of the term martial over dictionary definition of 'martial arts'...
-Ibisis

[Zaii]

Yes, I am saying that playing chess/juggling/acrobatics alone will not teach you how to come out on top of a fight with another human being.

[Anibis]

You make it sound like I WAS saying that.
-Ib

[Zaii]

Nah man, just me ;)

[Kazahel]

What's the point of that training? Do you wear camo on a daily basis? Do you frequently get up to purposes which require you to hide from groups of people in the dark? If it's just a fun game and not called anything more, then more power to you, but if it's supposed to be a training exercise, what are you training for?

The point of the training was to introduce us to use the environment to kinda hide in and to work as a team but also alone at the same time. But really it was more of a fun game that they did at the end of quite a hard day of training to end the day on more of a fun high. It also was kinda teaching how to spot people easier... stuff like looking from right to left to find people because if you look from left to right you dont look properly because you are used to reading in that way(so its faster), so you might not look good enough from that habit. Anyway please dont get confused with camp training with normal training.. camp training was more to get to know people and to just do different things which we didnt do in normal classes. It was also to introduce meditation and other weapons to the belts which were lower than when you actually got to use them.. like the manrikigusari for example. So it was a break in the normal training.

Like I said in the other post...

They played a game where you had to make it down a hill(in bushland for about a 1.5 km I think)as a small group of about five without being seen or caught by the other groups who were out to get you. So if you had camo gi's on you really couldnt be seen hey. It makes you not like a black spot which can be more noticed.... but it was pretty cool fun and was just a change out of normal training really.

[m1thr0s]

I would be hesitant to call chess a martial art, though I understand the inclination to call it that. I think that, technically, it's a logic/memory excercise in which will has very little to do with the actual outcome. I like the game, up to a point, but I also know it won't be very long now before machines have become virtually unbeatable. We're very near to this point already if we haven't already crossed the line.

Certain principles are highlighted in Chess that have their parallel in real combat situations. Since the development of positional play and its principles this has become even more apparent. It's astonishing to realize that this has mostly evolved within the last century alone. Prior to this the game was largely a battle of ego's...

But the Mind is a very real opponent and cannot be beaten with strategy alone and this is one of the reasons I believe that the high art of Magick and/or Alchemy really is a martial art. Unconscious Ignorance is no passive opponent and carries the weight of billions of minds born and died already in its arsenal of attack strategies. Neither is a stalemate a viable option of any kind...you either win that fight or you wind up having to fight it all over again.

One way or another, we're all in it for the duration, as near as I can tell. I think the martial side of magick is played down to appease the nervous when the reality is we are in a bloody battle that can only be fought and won...or lost. Losing has its price and that price is very real and there are almost always 10,000 more ways to lose it than there are ways it can be won. I'm not even all that convinced it has ever been won at all...save only partial victories at critical junctions to this point. The fight goes on and if you don't think you are in a fight...you haven't actually taken a proper inventory of your physical situation.

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

you also just explained why poker is a much better game than chess...

sorry for the digression.

[Kazahel]

you also just explained why poker is a much better game than chess...

sorry for the digression.

I'm not sure if I understand but you can kinda use poker techniques in chess cant you..

I love chess btw... I taught my son who is just starting pre-school this year and he is getting better at it very quickly which is a trip. He loves it!

And later I'll teach him how to fight more because he is such a little warrior. :)

[Zaii]

I would be hesitant to call chess a martial art, though I understand the inclination to call it that. I think that, technically, it's a logic/memory excercise in which will has very little to do with the actual outcome. I like the game, up to a point, but I also know it won't be very long now before machines have become virtually unbeatable. We're very near to this point already if we haven't already crossed the line.

Certain principles are highlighted in Chess that have their parallel in real combat situations. Since the development of positional play and its principles this has become even more apparent. It's astonishing to realize that this has mostly evolved within the last century alone. Prior to this the game was largely a battle of ego's...

But the Mind is a very real opponent and cannot be beaten with strategy alone and this is one of the reasons I believe that the high art of Magick and/or Alchemy really is a martial art. Unconscious Ignorance is no passive opponent and carries the weight of billions of minds born and died already in its arsenal of attack strategies. Neither is a stalemate a viable option of any kind...you either win that fight or you wind up having to fight it all over again.

One way or another, we're all in it for the duration, as near as I can tell. I think the martial side of magick is played down to appease the nervous when the reality is we are in a bloody battle that can only be fought and won...or lost. Losing has its price and that price is very real and there are almost always 10,000 more ways to lose it than there are ways it can be won. I'm not even all that convinced it has ever been won at all...save only partial victories at critical junctions to this point. The fight goes on and if you don't think you are in a fight...you haven't actually taken a proper inventory of your physical situation.

m1thr0s

This really helps me to understand more what you were getting at. Thanks.

Ibisis, please don't take offense to what I said, I was just in a hurry and didn't have time to expound. I'll try to pan out what I am saying a little better sometime soon.

[Anibis]

No sweat... you are the martial artist here...
-Ibisis

[Anibis]

One thing that came up in some of my researches in the interesting fac that the ancient Greek word 'Syntattein' from which we get the term 'syntax', means to draw up an army in orderly array... Words as military weapons? I think that, Zai, where we have been disagreeing is really on a semantic level, and I have no intention of pushing it, since your expertise in the matter outshades mine by far... I have simply come to the habit of classing to myself whether a given practice is 'martial', or mercurial, or venerial, or solar or whatnot. TO push this interpretation here, though valid in a certain way is to uh, flout the vernacular, which is usually fairly useless, and sleightly annoying... I guess I'd like you to see where I'm coming from with this argument, but at this point, I'd happily back down from this thread, all things considered. When in Rome...
-Ibisis

[Zaii]

I think that, Zai, where we have been disagreeing is really on a semantic level

Agreed. No worries.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Interesting reading. Like Zaii, I define a Martial Art as being physical combat. It is at the same a mental combat, but only in conjunction with the physical. Likewise I wouldn't count sport-fighting as MA nor divide MA into "sports vs art". The division that exists in MA over here (and I imagine in the West generally) is the one between traditional MA and what my sensei calls "MacDojos", who are usually unauthorised groups teaching a mixture of MAs (non specific Karate with Kickboxing, for example), who offer a "fast track" to blackbelt and whose chief sensei's usually claim to be 8th Dans or the Kung Fu equivalent.
People looking to learn a MA are usually looking for one or both of the following things: A) to learn self defence/learn to fight and B) to learn a traditional MA and learn about and/or partake to some extent in Oriental culture. A traditional MA dojo will cater to both A and B, whereas a MacDojo concentrates on A and skips B almost completely.

I can understand what M1 is saying about MA and Magick. Ive already made comparison between the two myself elsewhere on AF. The Martial aspect of Magick is an historically essential ingredient, and magicians have always been as combative as the community and society they belong to.

[Zaii]

Interesting reading. Like Zaii, I define a Martial Art as being physical combat. It is at the same a mental combat, but only in conjunction with the physical. Likewise I wouldn't count sport-fighting as MA nor divide MA into "sports vs art". The division that exists in MA over here (and I imagine in the West generally) is the one between traditional MA and what my sensei calls "MacDojos", who are usually unauthorised groups teaching a mixture of MAs (non specific Karate with Kickboxing, for example), who offer a "fast track" to blackbelt and whose chief sensei's usually claim to be 8th Dans or the Kung Fu equivalent.
People looking to learn a MA are usually looking for one or both of the following things: A) to learn self defence/learn to fight and B) to learn a traditional MA and learn about and/or partake to some extent in Oriental culture. A traditional MA dojo will cater to both A and B, whereas a MacDojo concentrates on A and skips B almost completely.

I can understand what M1 is saying about MA and Magick. Ive already made comparison between the two myself elsewhere on AF. The Martial aspect of Magick is an historically essential ingredient, and magicians have always been as combative as the community and society they belong to.

I don't think that all schools which simply teach fighting skills and don't employ cultural trappings are McDojos, in fact the best instruction I have received to date was in an environment specifically geared toward training sport fighters. I think a lot of the problem lately with the distortion around martial arts results from 80's and 90's pop culture and cinema, in addition to the myth-mongering that instructors use to cover up their lack of actual skill.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a ranking system in martial arts, but I do think you should have to earn them the way you do in BJJ, for instance. Although to be honest with you I much prefer the phrase often associated with muay thai, "the belt is in the ring."

[Okazaki Castle]

This is somewhat similar to some of what I do (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61YjdHOzPIg). It is rather like psychic combat applied physcally and a lot of it does indeed revolve around sakki. Sakki translates as the killing intent, not the desire to fight or brawl and injure your opponent a bit intent. Killing and death have martial applicaions, on the street for example, which can be fulfilled without death of opponent resulting. This is because death is more mystical than the simple rendering non-viable/non-inhabitable of a physcial form.

Of course, when I say such things people are usually skeptical because it does not fit into their experience range paradigms. Hence I posted that link were you've got some Japanese people saying the same thing, or something very similar. They've got a school and everything. That way, people can accept it more. Usually... some are very stubborn in their weltanschaung and only believe things when they themselves have had personal demonstration. *shrugs* I am not here to argue, for such is tiresome to me.

'sides, personally I prefer to focus on the amusing aspect of such things, like the fact that that particular art is called Shin-Taido. Hahaha, that says to me, more evidence piling up, others finally getting some things. Then I wait, and watch, and more and more piles up. This is the sort of reason why patience is the entry price to strategy. Especially when Time is one's tool. Of course, some people choose to view time as not real either. This also works for me. My 'martial art' as you might call it is essentially best represented by ninjutsu. Why? Because it has the most similarities to what I do. Still, it is not exactly what I do, I never actually reveal that. Such openness in such a central, essential field would be strategically foolish in my opinion. I am not a fool, nor do I believe in or value that role, even if it does have its own tarot card. Why? Blind eyes, zatoichi and the role of Kali. It is in such areas where I speak slightly in riddles (more in what I call 'symbolic cross-reference') and do not expect to be understood. Some of that I call humour, some of it I call Mystery.

As regards Shin-Taido, the key similarity is that your opponent's mind is not his own. It is yours. If you can do this in practice, then you can do this in practice.

As regards 'sports' martial arts, they have rules, this is why their combats can last so long, as they pummel each other bloody. This is also why they typically do lots of weights and things. You'll notice that none of the high-ranking ninja masters are very built really. There is reason for this, divine (as in figure it out, some more of my humour I guess). But a human physical form, it is not hard to take out a knee, an eye, break a neck, and so on. If the combat lasts more than a second, it is usually not a combat so much as egos bashing against each other. Special forces unarmed techniques, the aim is to 'drop' your opponent within three seconds. Such is possible, even against skilled boxers and the like. Why is this the case? The difference, my friends, is in the intent. Those who are not my friends will not understand what I mean by that, as I do not permit you to. That is an example of Shin-taido, if you like, as I just cut a deal with them. That is my sort of material. View it as fictional if you like. The day will come when such arguments, or perspectives, will be laid to rest... <If you like>, I'd say... (people like to have their own perspectives held up as equally valid, whether they are or not. That's fine by me, if such is wanted, for karma keeps track, and return comes about).

Regards all,
Oazaki, once again :cool: .

ps If it is wished that I leave you all to it and post no longer on this forum at all, ever, then simply tell me so and/or deactivate my account.

[m1thr0s]

ps If it is wished that I leave you all to it and post no longer on this forum at all, ever, then simply tell me so and/or deactivate my account.don't worry, you'll be the first to know...it would of course be very helpful if you were better able to recognize that no one is ever obliged to regard your assertions of fact as fact. It's up to you to find positive ways to reinforce those assertions in any give-and-take discussion format. You are not the only one around here with radical ideas going on in their head. Part of the usefulness of a site like this is fine-tuning our ability to communicate the obtuse to others...

The demo is interesting, but more than this I simply have not the experience to decide. I am sure others will be in the same boat with this. I found the video on Dim Mak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8mblcgTsk&mode=related&search=) equally as interesting...and equally as impossible to resolve with any degree of certainty. Dim Mak at least has some tradition behind it but demos can be faked and we are never really given enough information to make any kind of informed appraisal.

This is not a martial arts site and there is no sure way for any of us without real first-hand experience to be confident of what is real and not real with all of this. At the level of theory, there is no reason to think such things are not possible, although the explanations are a little skewed I think. I get really tired of all this "non-mind" rhetoric when we are really talking about a higher state of mind undiluted with diadic "noise", basically. From a Hermetic standpoint there is simply no such thing as a non-mind state of mind. The language itself is incorrect. But insofar as the mastering of Chi energy, there is simply no good reason to think such things should be impossible...

So thanks for the video clip...I find it a useful thing to reflect upon at least...

m1thr0s

[Dragon]

Ever since The Last Samurai came out, wannabes the world over started parroting the whole "no mind" thing. And I hear a lot of patched together I-trained-myself-from-a-movie-cartoon-magazine-and-invented-a-style-out-of-the-blue-therefore-I-am-the-master-of-it BS too much in this world. When a new form has broken through it is usually under the hands of an exceptional and extensively trained individual with a classical background. And by the way...by definition, if one says one is a ninja then one is a liar...real ninjas don't reveal themselves...yes Stephen Hayes got some access, but then he betrayed his masters by going public for commercial gain...so don't ever...ever... go there with me. I have a lot of respect for those ancient rebels, and would not see their name and arts tossed about like some schoolyard bauble. Like I said...by definition they are hidden. By all means love and revere what we do know of them in reality, but please don't be a poser, it's transparent, and only serves to sully a noble lineage.

I haven't weighed in on this discussion yet for some very specific reasons, one of those being that to me my ability to wage war or peace is a very personal experience; asking me how I work my martial sciences and arts is equivalent to asking me my sexual techniques in bed. But I felt that perhaps after a little episode this evening at the corner grocery, I might voice a little my opinions; and although perhaps some of my goals in acquiring some of the skills I possess might be interpereted as idealistic, they are not ideals to me, simply practical neccessities in a world such as this.


I haven't trained to impress others or achieve some weird wannabe-a-master-so-recognize-my-mighty-powers status. The only ones, up untill this post, who even really knew that I possessed a martial option were my closest friends and family. They know my ability level and temperaments. Others that have caught glimpses in a small way are those that have seen my compete in past years, or been at the other end of my justice in an engagement.

To me it is simply about achieving balance in a situation, whether it has been in a tournament scenario, or in application during physical confrontations. Ideally a warrior ( and I don't mean some new age inner cosmic warrior, I mean one that wages war ) should be able to "gear" to some degree the level of force needed to achieve balance, whether it be in sparring, competition, or combat. Again, ideally, one applies the level of energy and type of techniques required for that particular engagement to come to a rest (or arrest, if you will) - no more, no less. In reality though, when the adrenalin sings and the vision slows, the body will have its way, and use all the imprints available to it in acheiving its goals.

To my understanding, a lethal conversation has no more or less honor in the use of a gun or a sword - death is death, a goal to be acheived in the most efficient manner possible. One can erect codes of internal honor in using wood or hands only as to only immobilize or maim, but in nature itself a tiger will eat your face if you fuck with it. without remorse, and without karmic retribution. I stand in a balance of these two truths, preferring to achieve my goals with as little harm to myself and my opponents as possible, but recognizing the fact that if a decision is to be made to engage to the degree of placing my opponent out of the conscious world, there are no morals, only moves.

The goal of war is peace for me, I meet energy with energy until equilibrium is attained, and both parties have come to a standstill. How much force, and in what form the resolution takes is to a degree up to my opponent, and how much they are willing to commit or co-operate. Enough to say though, that being able to read intent is key, and understanding whether or not to simply talk them down, kiai the opponent to the ground with vocal force, lock them in a immobilizing position, or breaking things is determined before engagement actually occurs. If one can simply use psychology to attain a peaceful solution, then less violence needs to occur- AND THIS IS PREFERRED; because once I read an intent to commit to harm, then it's "go" time, and things get down to an instinctive level real quick once in motion; I have zero problem striking first...so it is always better to try to achieve balance through negotiation. Years of military and private sector security services have taught me this invaluable lesson. I don't like to spill blood, and I don't like mine being spilled either, but I'll be damned if I will stand by and allow another's blood to run at the hands of a thug. It's against my very nature.

I left full contact tourneys in the dust with the last century, and I only spar rarely and responsibly, sticking to my kata to remind my ganglia of the motions. When I do engage off the streets, it is with those that can take it when the ki is ramped, because even at a practice level my field hangs about three inches off my body as a direct result of my magickal and meditative practices; so through a couple of hard, and to my chagrin, shameful lessons, I have learned not to engage for fun, but for instruction or applicable real life requirements. A martial art is not a toy, it is a tool - beautiful and dangerous.

I am NOT going to list this style or that school, I'm only only going to say what I am. If someone in my neighborhood cries for help, man or woman, it's 911 first, then I am out the door - not because I am the "hero type" but because I am human, and if it was me out there in the night calling for help, I sure as fuck would want someone to arrive. Nobody unable to defend themselves should ever be the victim of a violent act due to the cowardice of those that possess the capabilities to resolve the situation...one way or the other. I do admit though it worries my wife a little when I pick up my boken or whatever is closest, and move towards trouble - and I feel for her; but she understands me, and it is her nature as a wife to be concerned, so to not vex her without reason, I do try not to place myself in harms way whenever possible. I don't intend to leave my family without me because of ego, cheesy machismo, or foolish bravado.

I detest useless or uneccessary violence. It is the lowest form of human contact. To hunt for food is one thing, to aggress out of greed or cruelty is another. All I want is peace, and will go to war to invoke it if I must. In the moment when violence erupts, that is when the men and the boys are seperated (Pardon me ladies for the generalization), and the spirit of the martial artist is defined...so when it goes down, where are you? Standing dumbly with the herd? Or in the fray, trying to restore order?...or even worse....are you the troublemaker...the rapist, the killer, the kidnapper, the robber, the bully, or whatever evil form of idiot takes advantage of the weak in the moment.

Who are you?

If you are the first, then there is no blame as long as you are honest about it, If you are the second, then I expect to see you at my side trying to resolve the situation, and if you are the third, then know that I am a god of war and vengeance, and if you physically oppress my brothers and sisters, or seek to do them or their children harm, I will do everything in my power to break you to the ground, and eat your fucking skull if I must in order to stop your actions. And without hatred, but most certainly with passion; because in the final analysis, I studied the art and science of war and peace because I feel.

Simply.

Although on the whole...I prefer a nice game of chess. :cool:


Sic semper draconis -

~D~

[MythMath]

I wish we were neighbors... :yes:

[Zaii]

As regards 'sports' martial arts, they have rules, this is why their combats can last so long, as they pummel each other bloody. This is also why they typically do lots of weights and things. You'll notice that none of the high-ranking ninja masters are very built really. There is reason for this, divine (as in figure it out, some more of my humour I guess). But a human physical form, it is not hard to take out a knee, an eye, break a neck, and so on. If the combat lasts more than a second, it is usually not a combat so much as egos bashing against each other. Special forces unarmed techniques, the aim is to 'drop' your opponent within three seconds. Such is possible, even against skilled boxers and the like. Why is this the case? The difference, my friends, is in the intent. Those who are not my friends will not understand what I mean by that, as I do not permit you to. That is an example of Shin-taido, if you like, as I just cut a deal with them. That is my sort of material. View it as fictional if you like. The day will come when such arguments, or perspectives, will be laid to rest... <If you like>, I'd say... (people like to have their own perspectives held up as equally valid, whether they are or not. That's fine by me, if such is wanted, for karma keeps track, and return comes about).

This, amongst a number of other things, demonstrates clearly your remarkable ignorance and arrogance in relation to martial arts.

As regards 'sports' martial arts, they have rules, this is why their combats can last so long, as they pummel each other bloody.They have rules to reduce the risk of people getting killed, paralyzed, or permanently maimed, and to shorten the fights to make them more marketable. Yes, the form that it takes in order to draw a crowd and make money makes it a sport. What you fail to take into account is the early vale tudo matches in brazil, where there were no such rules, and anything was in fact allowed. Some of these matches went on for a variety of time markers, 40 minutes, for example, between Masahiko Kimura and Valdemar Santana, and there are examples of matches lasting for hours at a time.

This is also why they typically do lots of weights and things. You'll notice that none of the high-ranking ninja masters are very built really. There is reason for this, divine (as in figure it out, some more of my humour I guess)No, the reason they train with "weights and things" (another phrase that displays your remarkable ignorance in relation to physicality, which apparently is "below" you) is because a stronger, faster person hits harder and faster, and can apply their strength in a more economical way. It's basic physics. The reason that "none of the high-ranking ninja masters" are very "built", is because they're all full of shit and couldn't win a fight against a trained fighter if their life depended on it. I don't know if historically ninjas existed, and neither does anyone else who has tried to demonstate such "fact". There is evidence of infiltration and subterfuge gear and techniques in japanese history, but it has very little to do with the unarmed and armed combat that today is being propagated as "ninjutsu".

The reason these turd wranglers claim "divine" ability or protection is because down here in the dirt where the rest of us roll around, they don't have the physical capabilities to show anything else.

If the combat lasts more than a second, it is usually not a combat so much as egos bashing against each other.I suppose this is from your personal extensive experience with "combat"?

Special forces unarmed techniques, the aim is to 'drop' your opponent within three seconds. Such is possible, even against skilled boxers and the like. Why is this the case? The difference, my friends, is in the intentIf you actually knew anything about the military, you would know that the last thing any soldier is instructed to do is use his bare limbs in combat. Unless there are certain stipulations revolving around policing situations, the order of attack places your bare hands as the last resort, even behind things you could potentially pick up in your environment and use to stab/crush/otherwise maim your opponent. The reason for this is that is it's hard to kill someone with your bare hands in comparison to using a weapon, even an improvised one. I know a guy who teaches army combatives, and guess what they're predominantly instructing them in - Brazilian jujutsu and submission grappling, in the dire event that you become unarmed amidst real combat, where, you know, people use firearms and explosives, so that you can restrain your opponent until you can arm yourself, or your squad mates can bring weapons to bear on your enemy.

There is no instant off button in personal unarmed combat. Yes, people can be knocked out, but there is never a guarantee, and all of the "special forces techniques" you're talking about are myths proliferated by self proclaimed "Reality Self Defense" instructors trying to make a buck.

The day will come when such arguments, or perspectives, will be laid to rest...I certainly hope so, but not in the way that you do. In fact, i'm still willing to let you demonstrate your "teh deadly" on my person, and I'm still willing to have a neutral party tape it. If you're such a hardass, then prove it. Period.

Oh, and could you please stop sucking up to the japanese every two seconds? It's ridiculous, and just because something comes from japan (or any country) doesn't mean it's authentic.

[m1thr0s]

This may come as a huge disappointment but Abrahadabra.com is not in the fight promotional business gentlemen. Please keep your arguments to topic and try to avoid personal attacks...

Zaii...I am unclear from your post...is it your position that the sakki method is a bunch of bs? Some of us are really just trying to sort that out for the moment... It smacks a bit of sci-fi (aka Dune for instance) but I don't really know that Chi itself cannot be developed that far.

m1thr0s

[Zaii]

I do believe to some extent in the concept of Ki or whatever the hell you want to call it, it has so many names from so many cultures and unfortunately a lot of misinterpretations. You can't knock people down with it from across the room. You can't use it to deflect bullets, or make yourself invulnerable to harm, or any of the other wildly out of proportion myths circulating around the concept. The videos in circulation are largely fake, and another unfortunate circumstance that crops up around that kind of circle is the guru mentality the students take on, so much so that they actually begin to believe that their instructor is manipulating them with Ki, and therefore, fall down, or in the most extreme cases as evidenced by that video, scream like an idiot. Ki as a weapon has never been successfully demonstrated on a resisting or skeptical opponent, which doesn't make it much of a weapon.

"Dim Mak" is another skewed concept. There are certain ways you can damage a body to form blod clots which later lead to heart attacks, for example, but it's a hell of a lot harder than people make it out to be, and it has nothing to do with Ki, more to do with twisting and damaging veins and applying a lot of pressure to very specific places that are incredibly hard to target on resisting opponents.

There is also a great deal of confusion about the concept of Sakki, which is meant to refer to bloodlust specifically, and Zanshin which is hard to translate into english, but it's basically relaxed alertness and focus, an essential trait in a fight. There have been incidences I've seen where one fighter was shaken by the focus of his opponent, but it's less supernatural than it is the awe inspiring nature of focus. Sakki, on the other hand, is largely discussed in fiction, and is similar to the greek Menis, which refers to an overwhelming rage.

As far as you being in the fight promotional business, I appreciate the humor, and if you'd prefer it not be brought up again, okay. All I'm trying to say is that for someone to claim they're "deadly" or even just a skilled martial artist, ad nauseum, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it enters a put up or shut up zone. It's like a chef claiming to be the single lone master of French cuisine, and then refusing to cook you a dish to sample, even if you offer to pay. How ridiculous is that?

[Kuroyagi]

It's like a chef claiming to be the single lone master of French cuisine, and then refusing to cook you a dish to sample, even if you offer to pay. How ridiculous is that?and that is why its useless to discuss martial arts online. (apart from language etc...kimi kitto nihongo mo dekinai darou.) see, and not even latin: ad nauseam, its called. yeah this all sounds ridiculous, but here martial arts is worth nothing. nan-no kachi mo nai. but you dont understand Japanese so what do i care?- yeah maybe you could defeat me in a dojo setting, but maybe not, who knows..crap aint it? I have never boasted about my martial arts talent online, its useless and petty, its nothing of worth here. hahaha! maybe Im good at it too, but it doesnt matter here..haha.

it doesnt matter whether you believe in ki or whatever...from my view I can say that I have moved a lot with it and I have survived only because of it. yes, thats the only reason why I am alive.

[m1thr0s]

it's sort of intriguing that there can be so much apparent difference of opinion over styles like this even in the martial arts, which I had sort of assumed had its own ways of sorting out fact from fiction for the betterment of all. Apparently this must not be as much the case as I had thought.

m1thr0s

[Kazahel]

This thread makes me lol..

Ever since The Last Samurai came out See post #68

So anyway after all that... what martial art did you actually study, because I think I missed it?

[Kazahel]

I do believe to some extent in the concept of Ki or whatever the hell you want to call it, it has so many names from so many cultures and unfortunately a lot of misinterpretations. You can't knock people down with it from across the room. You can't use it to deflect bullets, or make yourself invulnerable to harm, or any of the other wildly out of proportion myths circulating around the concept. The videos in circulation are largely fake, and another unfortunate circumstance that crops up around that kind of circle is the guru mentality the students take on, so much so that they actually begin to believe that their instructor is manipulating them with Ki, and therefore, fall down, or in the most extreme cases as evidenced by that video, scream like an idiot. Ki as a weapon has never been successfully demonstrated on a resisting or skeptical opponent, which doesn't make it much of a weapon.Ive seen those vids and they are pretty wild.. I dont know what to think of them. They are kinda funny I guess.

Anyway we trained with ki by focusing our energy into the strikes, and at the point of contact we would ki'i (not sure on spelling).. where we would yell(and sound scary). So each strike we would ki'i which was kinda using the energy I guess.. it was also a form of power word almost where it shocks you when you hear it. We would also build up ki energy when doing sword because sword is a slow weapon to learn at the start. Like each strike takes maybe 3 to 4 minutes because you just stand and breath and focus before you eventually strike.. so the sword is more about breathing slower and trying to feel the ki energy and bringing it up from the lower gut and into the perfect strike. So sword was more about focusing more powerful ki while normal striking was like mini ki strikes and sometimes finishing with a more powerful one(so the finsihing ki'i is stronger). So when we trained with ki we just used the energy that we were aware of and used it in the strikes and the voice/breath at the same time. The ki was apart of ki'i.

But yeah I dont know much of the lingo because I wasnt really into that part of it. It was alot to remember but I think I remember my favorite stance which was 'haso no kame'... I really love striking from that stance hey. But not the aikido version. lol

[m1thr0s]

well I appreciate the clarification at least...I was suspicious of the guru-syndrome in particular already. It kind of looked like all these cats knew their parts right down the line. It's hard to overlook certain things...in the case of Dim Mak...why only train one person in the world at a time? That doesn't sound like a science of any kind but it sure as hell sounds exactly like a scam...a family scam of some kind, started back with great great gramps and is still running strong so long as nobody let's the secret recipe slip out...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

ki is an interesting topic. to me it is even more than to some martial artists. (its what logos and m1thr0s intuitively referred to, too). its the power of context itself. its basically about "fields" of context of "energy and thereby (in my view) its created when we enter into communication with one another (sparring is also a form of communication). its carried by words and by tone, its in poetry when its written and when its read, its in a painting when you "mystically" enter its context, meaning: when you dare to immerse yourself into it, becoming "one" with it: entering its "ki/qi" field.

there is the one saying that was also mentioned in one video clip: a man can live some weeks without food, some days without water but not even one second without qi (this is merely the chinese transcription of it).

I think that- practically- in this sense of "context" (plus: the self-created force that emerges out of it), the concept of qi/ki is so useful that one had to invent it or suppose it if it didnt exist.

(another saying that I found somewhere in Confucius is also nice (from memory):
-In youth the qi is superfluous: so one has to guard oneself against (sexual) lust and over-activity.
-In middle age the qi goes here and there: so one has to guard oneself against being quarrelsome (hey thats ME!, I thought.)
-In old age the qi is declining: so one has to take care not to be miserly. (also this I found to be very true: eg old rich ppl who unconsciously view their money as a sublimated metaphor/placeholder for "being alife", because they are afraid of losing their "life-energy" they amass material goods.)

the concept of ki is great! banzai! (banzai literally means: 10 000 years!- in the sense of "may he live 10K yrs". whereby 10K=eternally)

p.s. "ki-ai" means: to align ones ki. if you align/fit the ki of the punch with your scream or sound or a gesture (mudra), if you align your whole being into a punch then it is more powerful, as one could imagine. ;)

[Zaii]

I'm going to try and keep this as simple as possible.

There is a way to determine what is and isn't effective in martial arts, and that's to use it on a resisting opponent. This is not some abstract theory, it's basic physical proof.

By and large everyone I have ever met or spoken to who has esteemed Ki ignores or neglects a very real and potentially the most important characteristic of a fighter behind skill: strength.

Now if these "Ki masters" are so phenomenal, why can't they ever prove it on skeptics? Shouldn't a weapon work on someone regardless of whether they believe in it or not? If you were to punch me (or kick me or throw me or choke me etc) I would still be affected even if I disbelieved in your tools, because they're real. Why can the same thing not be demonstrated with Ki......ever?

To everyone saying there's no point in discussing martial arts on the internet (I will agree that it's less effective than in-person), then why do you keep doing it? If you don't like the discussion, you're an adult, so be one, and don't take part in it.

There is a method to determine what is fact or fiction, period. I'm not talking from some personal sense of self-righteousness, I'm making reference to a scientific and fool proof method. To test your skills.

To everyone, anywhere, in any place, claiming that martial arts are primarily for improvement of character and not for learning combat skills, I ask you, what were the greeks doing with pankration, the burmese doing with muay thai and krabi krabong, the japanese with the tested forms of karate and judo, the europeans with boxing, so on and so forth? Character development is something you learn from life and its lessons, it's not something some instructor can teach you, and if all these instructors out to "develop your character" are such good people, then why are they the ones constantly being brought up on charges for fraud, and to a more horrifying extreme, coercing and molesting their students, some as young as 12? Do you ever wonder why this phenomenon almost exclusively (and constantly) rears its head in these "Ki" schools and "character" schools, and to my knowledge, has never happened in a school that actually trains fighters?

In relation to personal boasting: I have never ever claimed to be some badass, and I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world who could utterly dominate me in a fight, hell, maybe even there's one crawling around on this board. But what I have seen is a lot of gloating about skill, and I ask you, what purpose are you serving by bragging on the internet of all places, other than catering to your own ego in some shallow way and proving nothing to anyone?

[Zaii]

but you dont understand Japanese so what do i care? So why not speak to me in english, if you're under the impression my grasp of japanese is poor?

it doesnt matter whether you believe in ki or whatever...from my view I can say that I have moved a lot with it and I have survived only because of it. yes, thats the only reason why I am alive.

Right. So the other day there I was walking down the street and I totally lifted this bus with my mind to avoid being hit by it. It doesn't matter whether -you- believe me or not, right? It totally happened.

[Dragon]

Can you tumble Ibisis? Things like summersaults, flips, etc...? Always wanted to learn that stuff myself...

all the best,
Oazaki.

in just about any martial art...tumbling and falling is one of the foundations of movement. How could you have studied all this stuff, ESPECIALLY "Ninjutsu" and not have that training?


Wait ...wait...this ought to be good. :laugh:

~D~

[Dragon]

This thread makes me lol..

See post #68

So anyway after all that... what martial art did you actually study, because I think I missed it?

If you read it carefully you would see that I did not list it intentionally...

What's the point? No one really needs to know unless they want to whip it out and compare sizes...imo

I was simply expressing my stance on MA's in my life...what one does with it in one's own life is up to the individual....You can use it like a can opener, you can shine it up like a trophy and put it on a pedestal, or hang it on your bedroom wall next to your Bruce Lee poster from Enter the Dragon and masturbate to it...I don't really care.

We all know what we do in reality, and in an actual confrontation the facts will win out...not the little legends we make up to assuage our whimpering egos, broken noses, or issues with our mothers.

That's my perspective and I'm welcome to it.


~D~

[Kazahel]

There is a method to determine what is fact or fiction, period. I'm not talking from some personal sense of self-righteousness, I'm making reference to a scientific and fool proof method. To test your skills.


When we used ki-ai we did test it on the punching bags, and it did seem to make a difference. Sure this might not prove ki energy but it did help in punching or kicking more powerfully. It was about focusing all your energy into the strike with the breath and voice which did seem to give better results.

We were also encouraged to use the weights and they had a mini gym so that people could get stronger. So it was very much about getting stronger in all ways.

In regards to tumbling and falling we did heaps of that stuff. You have to learn how to fall and roll before you learn to do the throws.. that teach you how to land from them. So anotherwords you have to learn how to roll before being stomach thrown or belt over head thrown for example, otherwise it hurts when you land. Which my ex's brother found out once. :laugh: I got in a belt over head throw once because he attacked me(omg lol!).. it just came so naturally after so many years which is kinda where the no mind thing comes in. Anway they also used the rolls to attack because you can get quite abit of power up from them when you come up with a heal and palm(for example) from a forward roll. The heal and palm strike was aimed at the chin because if its done right it jars a point in the brain which knocks you out or something. So it was a nasty strike but it didnt kill like the typical nose strike does. So yeah we used to roll all over the place.. lol.. and do this cool leaping where you can cover ground pretty quickly.. so youd leap in with a power strike and roll outta there. lol. But we didnt really learn anything too tricky in regards to flips because there was no point in alot of it.. like there is no point in doing a flip to cover ground when you can leap or do another move which can cover the distance with a stronger stance. Same as for kicking... we were at first taught that there is not much point trying to kick in the head because you might as well punch them because its alot closer for your fist. So we only learnt what was effective and not what was flashy looking because alot of that stuff leaves you open to attack because your off balance. We did learn double kicks which could reach to the head but mainly we just used what was more effective in quickly taking down the opponent while keeping good balance. Rolls were pretty cool though.. because they are hard to defend against kinda and they give more power into a strike.

Also in regards to boasting... I've only really answered the thread question and your questions.. which I guess I answered? So if thats boasting or me telling a funny story about throwing my exs brother over my head(in front of his parents) is boasting.. then so be it.

[Kazahel]

If you read it carefully you would see that I did not list it intentionally...
I know... but I still wanted to ask because I was just curious... I mean it is the thread for it isnt it?


What's the point? No one really needs to know unless they want to whip it out and compare sizes...imo

I was simply expressing my stance on MA's in my life...what one does with it in one's own life is up to the individual....You can use it like a can opener, you can shine it up like a trophy and put it on a pedestal, or hang it on your bedroom wall next to your Bruce Lee poster from Enter the Dragon and masturbate to it...I don't really care.

We all know what we do in reality, and in an actual confrontation the facts will win out...not the little legends we make up to assuage our whimpering egos, broken noses, or issues with our mothers.

That's my perspective and I'm welcome to it.


~D~

No offence but you sound very jaded or something...

And your very right about what wins out in actual confrontation. But Im not sure on how much I can say about that really.. Hmm.. Once I met a second dan black belt in karate who wanted to fight me. He was alittle drunk and speeding and he really wanted a piece of me because I came to the aid of a friend who was being beaten up by his bigger mate. Anyway I was only a green belt then but I walked away with my life and he didnt. So I know what and how things generally play out when people like to fight from personal experience. ;) Dont worry though.. I beat the murder charge and was aquitted on the grounds of self defence. :)

And I let out the strangest ki-ai that night.. but I cant really talk about it.

Anyway also you said this earlier..

If you are the first, then there is no blame as long as you are honest about it, If you are the second, then I expect to see you at my side trying to resolve the situation, and if you are the third, then know that I am a god of war and vengeance, and if you physically oppress my brothers and sisters, or seek to do them or their children harm, I will do everything in my power to break you to the ground, and eat your fucking skull if I must in order to stop your actions. And without hatred, but most certainly with passion; because in the final analysis, I studied the art and science of war and peace because I feel.


Which is also why I asked what art you studied because you sure sound confident. I was curious on what art gives such confidence kinda I guess..

Like which art teaches you to eat their skull? lol

[Zaii]

When we used ki-ai we did test it on the punching bags, and it did seem to make a difference. Sure this might not prove ki energy but it did help in punching or kicking more powerfully. It was about focusing all your energy into the strike with the breath and voice which did seem to give better results.

We were also encouraged to use the weights and they had a mini gym so that people could get stronger. So it was very much about getting stronger in all ways.

In regards to tumbling and falling we did heaps of that stuff. You have to learn how to fall and roll before you learn to do the throws.. that teach you how to land from them. So anotherwords you have to learn how to roll before being stomach thrown or belt over head thrown for example, otherwise it hurts when you land. Which my ex's brother found out once. :laugh: I got in a belt over head throw once because he attacked me(omg lol!).. it just came so naturally after so many years which is kinda where the no mind thing comes in. Anway they also used the rolls to attack because you can get quite abit of power up from them when you come up with a heal and palm(for example) from a forward roll. The heal and palm strike was aimed at the chin because if its done right it jars a point in the brain which knocks you out or something. So it was a nasty strike but it didnt kill like the typical nose strike does. So yeah we used to roll all over the place.. lol.. and do this cool leaping where you can cover ground pretty quickly.. so youd leap in with a power strike and roll outta there. lol. But we didnt really learn anything too tricky in regards to flips because there was no point in alot of it.. like there is no point in doing a flip to cover ground when you can leap or do another move which can cover the distance with a stronger stance. Same as for kicking... we were at first taught that there is not much point trying to kick in the head because you might as well punch them because its alot closer for your fist. So we only learnt what was effective and not what was flashy looking because alot of that stuff leaves you open to attack because your off balance. We did learn double kicks which could reach to the head but mainly we just used what was more effective in quickly taking down the opponent while keeping good balance. Rolls were pretty cool though.. because they are hard to defend against kinda and they give more power into a strike.

Also in regards to boasting... I've only really answered the thread question and your questions.. which I guess I answered? So if thats boasting or me telling a funny story about throwing my exs brother over my head(in front of his parents) is boasting.. then so be it.

My post wasn't aimed at you or yours, it just so happened that it followed yours.

[Dragon]

Ok..about some semantics here....When I said "you" it was meant in the rhetorical sense, not the personal. Sorry about the confusion. It was directed at the public in general and whomever out there fits the glass slipper gets to wear it.

Like that ;)

~D~

[Kazahel]

Ok..about some semantics here....When I said "you" it was meant in the rhetorical sense, not the personal. Sorry about the confusion. It was directed at the public in general and whomever out there fits the glass slipper gets to wear it.

Like that ;)

~D~

Whatever ****.

I'm nixing the derogatory bit Kaz. I don't see anybody shoving it at you...m1thr0s

[Dragon]

Like I said...don't over-personalize...

I'm not quite so easily baited, nor prone to rushes of testosterone when insulted.

It's not a good way to maintain the peace. Which is what I used my training for, more so then trying to prove my manhood to every hothead that wanted a piece of me. Besides for me the money was more consistant.

As I stated in paraphrase, as a warrior, one is either part of the solution, or part of the problem; in accordance with personal moral and beliefs. I feel that physical training is only half the picture. Guess what the other half is?

~D~

[Kuroyagi]

So why not speak to me in english, if you're under the impression my grasp of japanese is poor?



Right. So the other day there I was walking down the street and I totally lifted this bus with my mind to avoid being hit by it. It doesn't matter whether -you- believe me or not, right? It totally happened.Becuse if you knew Japanese then you at least would understand and recognize the various meanings and connotations of the word ki. Also I never said that I stopped a bus with qi or that its possible. Im with you when you say that martial arts can only be proven in a physical setting. So Im not discussing them online at all.

Do you think that magic alchemy and all this stuff isnt real too? Do you think that things like "energy weaving", just to mention a recent thread here, is worthless and fake?

After all we shouldnt forget that the direct experience of these things arent normal at all. Very few people even have seen them working. Only because many here work those things should not delude us from the fact that we belong to a minority who can do them or have seen them working, it can even be compared to x-tian priests: nearly none of them have a direct experience of god. But that doesnt make those magical/mystical experiences and practices less real.

[Naomi]

Guys, you can't live without chi....

[Kuroyagi]

Yes thats what I said above:

there is the one saying that was also mentioned in one video clip: a man can live some weeks without food, some days without water but not even one second without qi (this is merely the chinese transcription of it).

Also from a theoretical side its difficult to discern something you are a part of or that you are inmersed in. It is referred to in many esoteric teachings from gnosticism up to Spares "atmosperic "I"...hinted at in words like transcendence and perspective-change and banishing and focus (but thats off topic here, maybe)...

btw that was a good series (the one with chris crudelli): here some more clips that look more critical at some martial artists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh7x3-VXh0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh7x3-VXh0)

ouch! (in this one a man cuts his arm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5hCczfGYv0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5hCczfGYv0)

[Zaii]

I really don't care anymore. This has gone beyond ridiculous into the comically absurd. Believe whatever you want. Have fun with that.

[Dragon]

Ya know, by definition, a martial art is an art of war, and although there is a lot of hand to hand, and hand-held weapons training in traditional martial arts, that is because when the arts originated there were only those weapons available. Nowadays, If I were to take the term MA liturally -

My primary martial art would be Gun-Fu.

Anything else seems to be pacifiction or sport, in the litural sense. Not war.

In a war, why would I choose anything else first?. I can tag somebody from 1100 feet out, and no matter how well one can flip, dodge, and swing a sword, odds are that 6 rounds a second of 7.62 mm ammunition coming at a target will make short work of anything that is offered ... as for close combat, in the litural sense, a Taurus Arms .357 five shot revolver is a nice choice, Usable as close as 6 inches from the body. And after the smoke clears - The rest is up to Buddha.


HIYA! BANG!

hehehe.

~D~

[Okazaki Castle]

Fascinating and very wise post Dragon. To answer your general question, I am only the aggressor in line with Justice, ie to correct what I view as wrong with the world. Have I ever let someone get beaten up when I culd have helped? Yes, once only, for very specific, and correct reasons. Generally I involve. What do you do when you see the legal powers that be being abusive, eg cops beating up a 'perp', as they view it, but which you feel is not? It would be unforgivable to fail, and it points to a wider situation which needs correction. We must all do our part, but no more.

m1thros: thank-you for the clarification. Helps some. I have found some things cannot be resolved thru words alone. As regards 'no mind' if I might give my own personal experience there, that is when you do not actively think but empty your mind, much as you would prior to a meditation where you were to focus on something to see what answer comes. Once the mind is empty of your own mental forces and desires in this way you then begin to feel energies in the air around you, the quality of the moment and of the various intents which permeate the particular location you are in. It is not so much a succession of techniques but a succession of feelings. You get the feeling to move to your left, for example, or walk down a particular street on a wider (longer time scale) scope. Bit like that, I could go into it in more depth and detail if you like.

Zaii: whatever. I always like your posts, they make me laugh. Doubtless, when you're arm is better, we can continue our discussion at greater length. Do you believe the Tengu are mere figments of people's imaginations, incidentally? I'd like to watch you insult them, you're good at that :)

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Naomi]

Ya know, by definition, a martial art is an art of war, and although there is a lot of hand to hand, and hand-held weapons training in traditional martial arts, that is because when the arts originated there were only those weapons available. Nowadays, If I were to take the term MA liturally -

My primary martial art would be Gun-Fu.

Anything else seems to be pacifiction or sport, in the litural sense. Not war.

In a war, why would I choose anything else first?. I can tag somebody from 1100 feet out, and no matter how well one can flip, dodge, and swing a sword, odds are that 6 rounds a second of 7.62 mm ammunition coming at a target will make short work of anything that is offered ... as for close combat, in the litural sense, a Taurus Arms .357 five shot revolver is a nice choice, Usable as close as 6 inches from the body. And after the smoke clears - The rest is up to Buddha.


HIYA! BANG!

hehehe.

~D~

Hurrah for Gun-Fu!

Ka-pow!

:laugh:

good post D....

<insert cool image of doomguy killing demons>

[Okazaki Castle]

in just about any martial art...tumbling and falling is one of the foundations of movement. How could you have studied all this stuff, ESPECIALLY "Ninjutsu" and not have that training?


Wait ...wait...this ought to be good. :laugh:

~D~

I can do rolls and know how to fall fairly safely. I can't do backflips and front flips, or hand springs. I learnt my ninjutsu thru personal instruction from some dude I met in the Himalyan mountains when I went to Ladakh during the year 2002, and only ever three times went to established systems dojos to 'test' things (two Bujinkan teachers, one Genbukan). My primary training in terms of established schools in the external world was in Daito Ryu Aiki-jutsu, not ninjutsu.

I believe one should not end up on the floor. I further believe that one should not resolve a combat once the combat is joined but before it even gets to that point. Mind's motion is antecedent to neurological muscular response (nerve signals to muscles to move).

Was that good or evil? Or beyond both? Taoist Power!!! This is why I don't get taken seriously, see? As Morehei said, a smile is powerful. Of course, Morehei never dodged bulletts and just avoided an attack from bokken-armed combatants. Such disrespect to past masters is foolish I'd say, why is that?

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Zaii]

Zaii: whatever. I always like your posts, they make me laugh. Doubtless, when you're arm is better, we can continue our discussion at greater length. Do you believe the Tengu are mere figments of people's imaginations, incidentally? I'd like to watch you insult them, you're good at that :)

all the best,
Oazaki.

Why no, I plan on protecting myself from their wrath with my bestest buddy The Easter Bunny.

[Okazaki Castle]

I wouldn't characterize the Tengu as wrathful per se myself, but then again, I don't know much myself about the Easter Bunny. Perhaps he is a fearsome ally in the Arts of War. Personally I think you've suffered enough, but I tend to be soft that way with most 'normals' not in government or such things. Primarily because I don't care about most things I suppose and tend to take my amusement where I can find it. You are fun to watch, so I watch... and sometimes poke occasionally, tis true, I'm a troublemaker that way by character, though I do try to be better behaved on this forum than is my normal wont, primarily because people like to be serious here, so I try to fit in some, as a courtesy.

What is the combat application of Godforms and like deities? Glenn Morris, whose nickname was Dr Death and who wrote a book on Dim Mak ( Handy Linkie (http://www.wholisticarts.org/books.html) ), talks about this topic some. He did ninpo and ninjutsu which you consider fictional btw Zaii... Also, he considered himself a Vampyre, and has a chapter on how Hatsumi is a Vampyre aswell in his book 'Pathnotes of an Americna ninja master'. That should be good food for arrogance, or personal opinion if you like, for you Zaii, run with it, I like to watch you...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Zaii]

Personally I think you've suffered enough, but I tend to be soft that way with most 'normals' not in government or such things.

You are fun to watch, so I watch... and sometimes poke occasionally,


That should be good food for arrogance, or personal opinion if you like, for you Zaii, run with it, I like to watch you...

all the best,
Oazaki.

Dude you're really just starting to sound like a pervert at this point.

[Naomi]

Ah the white rabbit strikes again!!!

I'm starting to like the new Mars more and more....

Think about it...he can be ressurected over and over and he poops chocolate.

Was there ever a Kung Fu based around the rabbit fighting style?...I'm not well read on Kung Fu styles, too many of them....

[Zaii]

Hi. I'm here on earth, where the topic in this thread is martial arts, which unfortunately seems to be tied into adolescent pornographic fantasy. If you two would like to discuss the many intricacies of watching cartoon characters get raped, start another thread.

[m1thr0s]

agreed...take the porno film festival stuff someplace else folks...

m1thr0s

[Dragon]

Ok, this would apply to both Eastern and Western as it is used the world over. What would the name be for the use of firearms? Gun fu is a tongue in cheek name we know but it is far from formal. we have so many names for the Way of the Gun like gunslinging, military training, firearm safety, etc., but no one has ever given it a traditional name like we have for many of the other combative techniques that are practices. It is a science like the rest, and does have an artful side as style can be determined and implemented. Nor is it just "military", as so many civilians with no military training employ it as well.

It is by definition a martial art, but what is its correct name?

thoughts?

~D~

[Kazahel]

I was simply expressing my stance on MA's in my life...what one does with it in one's own life is up to the individual....You can use it like a can opener, you can shine it up like a trophy and put it on a pedestal, or hang it on your bedroom wall next to your Bruce Lee poster from Enter the Dragon and masturbate to it...I don't really care.

We all know what we do in reality, and in an actual confrontation the facts will win out...not the little legends we make up to assuage our whimpering egos, broken noses, or issues with our mothers.

That's my perspective and I'm welcome to it.


~D~

Hey can I just quickly ask.. why did you call yourself Dragon... ?

But anyway..

It is by definition a martial art, but what is its correct name?

thoughts?

I'm not really sure on what name you would call the shooting arts. Probably just gun techniques. ? I dunno. :)

[Dragon]

Hey can I just quickly ask.. why did you call yourself Dragon... ?


Sure, no prob. It was a name I earned in the witchcraft circles in the northwest, and on the rock stages as an engineer/manager. I was born in the year of the wood dragon and some of that archetypal current runs through me.

I got it by being both abstract and ferocious in my approach to dealing with problems. Whether it was guarding the circle, or troubleshooting a show, I have a single mindedness in achieving an end balanced with an adaptability to shifting realities and environs.

It actually had nothing to do with martial training specifically, that was more a kind of happy synchronicity I suppose. Not all the dragons I have met have been practicing MA's, I've met one other that was, and he was a student of Kali.

Does that clarify a little?

~D~

[m1thr0s]

stay on topic here folks...

Kaz...if you can't be bothered to dignify a comment with an actual response, don't bother with the coy non-sequiturs or they will simply be deleted. Persist and they will be cited. This is a discussion forum, first and foremost...

m1thr0s

[Kazahel]

stay on topic here folks...

Kaz...if you can't be bothered to dignify a comment with an actual response, don't bother with the coy non-sequiturs or they will simply be deleted. Persist and they will be cited. This is a discussion forum, first and foremost...

m1thr0s

Oh sorry.. I thought I did? I wasnt sure on how much to say to respond to his last question. But I tried. :)

And I thought I should be allowed to point out something which Im not sure other people could see. Like my point of view. Because I found it amusing at some of the comments.. considering.

And to grab a quote I heard recently to finish this post off..

That's my perspective and I'm welcome to it.

[m1thr0s]

no contest regarding your right to your perspective...:cool:

"..." is simply not an opinion anyone else can follow or engage...

thanks for your efforts,

m1thr0s

[Kazahel]

no contest regarding your right to your perspective...:cool:

"..." is simply not an opinion anyone else can follow or engage...

thanks for your efforts,

m1thr0s

I thought I typed alittle more than " ... ". And I also had a couple of quotes that was showing where I was coming from but I guess they didnt count? It's just sometimes you dont need to type alot hey..

Anyway what I was trying to get at before was about this quote..

If you read it carefully you would see that I did not list it intentionally...

What's the point? No one really needs to know unless they want to whip it out and compare sizes...imo

I was simply expressing my stance on MA's in my life...what one does with it in one's own life is up to the individual....You can use it like a can opener, you can shine it up like a trophy and put it on a pedestal, or hang it on your bedroom wall next to your Bruce Lee poster from Enter the Dragon and masturbate to it...I don't really care.

We all know what we do in reality, and in an actual confrontation the facts will win out...not the little legends we make up to assuage our whimpering egos, broken noses, or issues with our mothers.

That's my perspective and I'm welcome to it.


~D~

I just found it kinda odd that someone wouldnt want to say what art they learned for those reasons but then choose to be so open about the name Dragon. Like you can shine that name up and use it like a trophy too etc.. Which is the impression I get from that name personally, which is why I found it strange to be so opposi