Breaking Free of the Consensual Lie

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

Maybe I misunderstood it but in another thread (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=877) Copuldaemon had said the following: "...a satanist/person of the LHP's goal is to separate themselves from the universal consciousness or 'one', do you think that's possible?" That will be the basis of this discussion but I want to add another element. How many here think that an eventual break from the so-called "Holy Guardian Angel", or whatever you want to call it, may also be a necessary step to freedom?

[Naomi]

Well another Satanist I knew once said his idea of the universe is one where at the end of everything, the sheep get sucked back up into the source on the right hand path and the goats travel off to spawn universes of their own on the left hand path...

As for a HGA, well I don't really recognize a higher self, just me and who's got control of my mind...should be me but sometime not...

But there's a time to rid oneself of teachers, that's for certain.

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

I am not of the opinion that the higher self is the same as the HGA. In my experience the HGA is something separate from us and yet co-dependent on us in this world; a symbiosis. I have at times thought of it as a parasite, hence my own idea of casting them off. It is only upon that so-called "knowledge and conversation" of them that we begin our steps towards walking between the worlds but I think in order to really break out of this lie we have to override the HGA as well and take matters into our own hands. In other words, I think the HGA may be just another form of control, perhaps a step above the consensual dreamworld they themselves help to establish, but a system of control nonetheless.

[Copuldaemon]

who's got control of my mind...should be me but sometime not...
-but you're a gemini.

anyways, you know right now I'm deep in my studies and came up for a digital breath of air and on my way out of here i saw this and so i'm like damn, so here's my take on it in response to your question/err...my question too.

i think there are two levels we must look at here and that is 1. the physical and 2. the mental/spiritual and on a base we are the same. Funny to because I was just fvcking thing about this.
You know how you're driving on the parkway and you can't just pass someone because you have a better transmission or that they have this ultra-superduper fly ride and they can't have that and so what happens? They just rip right past you and weave in and out of cars because they want to show you how death defying and ILL they are. Lol. Why? Because you have a good transmission?
Then you look at that incidents like that are repeated by different people from different races and whatever and that's theire base desire for a masturbated ego ehem...
Then mentally where's you can see the idea but due to the physical it isn't possible. Why? Well, I was on the tubby toilet and thinking this and I suppose that it's because we ignore our inate bases (which are all the same because we're human beings) because our ego's say, "if you admit you need this or want that, you are weak, yada-yada-yada." And so by ignoring it (which is impossible, it manifests *eitherway but distorted. So we must be proverbally naked in front of the art class and tell ourselves in realization what we want and shamlessly like our swinging natures, to get it.
So yes, being separate (in ** theory) is possible.

Also, I don't know about HGA's or HDA's but I come to the conclusion that meeting my own angels (which was during the time CM had caught the attention of my etheric erection) is/was the closest I'll ever get to that.
And so, the story went that when I was going to the darkside, lol, so to speak, my angels would step in. When things gotten out of hand with my goetic associations. my angels woudl step in, when I would travel to the dark quadrants of my brain, my angels would step in.
All this stepping in obviously means that whatever was going on was stopped and it was nice until it'd became annoying>and I told them thanks but no thanks and so it's possible.

so in essence, you're asking if breaking from these elements is it to freedom and I bring up freedom from what? FEAR. Well that's what it was in my case with my feathered shaperones and FEAR with mentioning my needs to my self.
So the answer to what you ask is YES.

*the human body and spirit is design to take in and to release.
** I say in theory because I have only realized by based needs while on the bowl and have yet to achieve them and to know of what happens after that.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Maybe I misunderstood it but in another thread (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=877) Copuldaemon had said the following: "...a satanist/person of the LHP's goal is to separate themselves from the universal consciousness or 'one', do you think that's possible?" That will be the basis of this discussion but I want to add another element. How many here think that an eventual break from the so-called "Holy Guardian Angel", or whatever you want to call it, may also be a necessary step to freedom?

Ah, well, what we are really talking about here is individuality, of which we are living proof of its possibility. Becoming truly seperate would be oblivion, as we would have no reality in which to exist or to experience. So the real question is: can we maintain individuality beyond death? I don't think this question can be answered objectively, but that is certainly the goal on the LHP.
As for HGAs, like Naomi I am of the oppinion that the HGA emanates from the individual, so I don't see why seperation from it should be desirable or advantageous.

[oak]

interesting!
i've been thinking that basically in the "core" we all are the same, "consciousness"(?), perceiving itself through self-made or unconsciously acquired filters. and i kinda like Itzhak Bentovs' way of putting it visually (something like this):
http://www.tuubi.net/oakie/pics/abr/bentov.gif

one foot in heaven one foot on earth sorta thing, maybe the whole point is to take that foot outta heaven. maybe we are the "fallen angels" of legend, just need to complete the "fall". would seem kinda pointless for the Tao to divide in the first place if the desired outcome is to undivide, and reminiscence the various trips it took-
Tao: "do i remember that one time at the boot camp?"
Tao: "that sure was a hoot!"
Tao: "yea..."

or maybe the point is to encompass the totality of the triangle above, but are these just two different ways to describe the same end result?

hmm, well, now i'm confused, see?-> :confused:

[Kuroyagi]

My present take on it is quite simple: only when one realizes his whole self which is highly individualistic and restricted (yet much more than what normal ppl on everyday "consciousness" have) you can go out to the part of you that touches eternity. You could imagine it as two concentric circles: the smaller one is the ego and the larger the real self- though the smaller one is highly permeable and can even be lessened/constricted the larger one is labeled "humanly possible" = real self only the borders of which touch on the "eternal self" that can be accessed there. this allows for spontaneous "mystic" experiences of otherwise completely "normal" persons, too. inside the outer circle one can theoretically roam around freely (ideally lets say, when one is a master-magician etc). I have also experienced the HGA: but often ignored it or acted against its warnings. For these things (warnings/pre-cognition etc.) I try to use more "energy"/science based paradigms- instead of spirit ones- so that I can ascribe these phenomena to my self personally (as I said elsewhere). So theoretically its possible to also realize the "eternal self" yet maybe not humanly possible. But this area: to "transcend" the human-being and self could be one main field of research for the so called LHP. I personally dont care about these designations, though- they are merely an aesthetic phenomenon.

Of course, all this doesnt exclude alien (outside) influences into my sphere- be they made by humans or greys etc yet its only a model and I could never be 100% sure whether Im presently influenced by "them" or not (a mild paranoia is ever-present so to speak.)...another thought I just had is that the "all-one" if it exists, actually needs us, needs "consciousness" in order to recognize itself...w/o us it cant cognize- and an interesting question would then be if we also need "IT". (why should we. ;))

(This model is partly Jungian: I also took that test in the other thread and was ENFP.)

[Okazaki Castle]

I think in order to really break out of this lie we have to override the HGA as well and take matters into our own hands. In other words, I think the HGA may be just another form of control, perhaps a step above the consensual dreamworld they themselves help to establish, but a system of control nonetheless.

Well, my HGA is in physical form as the Latino singer Juanes:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0009V10N6.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

He sort of guards my back in terms of image and things. Also gives useful advice at critical times. For example, when the police and lawyers where aboutto all scramble on my back for various involvements at a critical juncture last year, I heard his song 'La Camisa Negra', which of course I immediately connected to the black shirts of Italy, now most commonly represented by the Cammora, a branch of the mafia, due the five oaths of that organisation, one of them being opposition to the established legal hierarchies and the other being to assist where they can and honour calls for it. Just the right advice at the time, plus he covered the Vampyre thing for me as well (on the same album too, 'Mi Sangre') which also was necessary in some ways there.

Now that's sort of what I view Guardian Angels as being for. Sure, 'knowledge protects' as the cassiopaean material says, and so there's a point to the whole education thing... but listening to an angel, even an archangel, for advice on directions to take in life and in terms of spiritual progress? No, definitely not, angels can't think with perfect clarity, they are servants of the light, and remain so, even if warriors. For example, one of the psychic sparring sessions I would have preffered to avoid was with a good friend of mine who's the main physical form of the Archangel Gabriel. Not an xtian or anything, in fact he used to be in the US Rangers before leaving to become a computer programmer in Silicon Valley. What and who he is is just something he's always known, pretty much. And he's very wise, and very intelligent, with great clarity in a wide range of topics, smooth expression, masterful, and so on. But, at the top of the tree so to speak, he can't consider any possibilities but the pre-wired path that god made available to him. Angelic contract you see, unless you're doing Lucifer and, to an extent, Michael (or follow either of them, but then are bound by their will and direction). Now, ideally many of us want to transcend the nature of the divinity in this system, so, as such, angels wouldn't be able to guide the way there really. Unless your HGA happens to be on assignment to Lucifer or Michael in some way.

Of course, a lot of this is prbbly different from recorded lore. *shrugs* to me it's just like talking about past acquaintances and friends...

Thus, I'd say HGA are good for doing the guardian function, a bit like advisors in the consiglieri or vizier sense, and as 'door policy' in a way, but the captain of the ship is the captain of the ship, so take the decisions, set the course and draw the lines yourself sort of thing...

Regards all,
Oazaki.

[m1thr0s]

I can only report that there is no HGA where I am. I agree that the relationship is parasitic and see no possible way that it cannot be based on how it has been defined. In any case, I have no earthly use for it personally. It is possible that severing the connection was the only practical use there ever really was.

In any case...it proved to be a useless mirror to me personally. I needed a higher grade of "Holy" and had no particular need of either "Guardian" nor "Angel"...my strategy was to employ Logos directly, which I took on in the form of universal symbolisms which both guide and council in ways completely opposite to what one might expect of the HGA, if such a thing existed in one's world. It doesn't have any meaning at all in mine...

Perhaps this will disturb some or disappoint others but it is no odds either way. I went through an extended process of "hacking away the inessentials" as the I Ching says and the HGA just happened to be among the debris. I have formed no particular judgments about it but simply report the facts as I know them. No one actually needs the HGA any more than one actually needs a teddy bear. But if you insist that you really do need a teddy bear, who the hell am I to say you don't? I may tell you that you won't actually die or anything if you don't have one. I may tell you that teddy bears don't really very much resemble the real world. But if you insist that you must have a teddy bear, then I assume you must and that's the end of it. I still smoke cigarrettes for cripe's sake so I know how it is to be emotionally attached to things you don't actually need, and may in fact, not be very good for you at all...

So I rank the HGA as a vice...not even remotely resembling an essential magickal property. Crowley was simply playing the parrot on that one, an appeal to heirachy he couldn't quite eliminate from his thinking...like so many other addictions really...Heirachical organization holds a special significance to multiple personality dysfunctions and no matter what you think of prophecy as an art form, it is ultimately rooted in a neurological dysfunction and most of us can only thank our lucky stars it's not something we have to live with day-to-day as he apparently did. So Crowley very likely really did need his teddy bear since his teddy bear was a whole lot smarter than he was. This simply is not the norm for most people, nor should it be.

m1thr0s

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

Not disturbing or disappointing at all m1thr0s. Not to me at least. You and I seem to be on the same page.

[KCh]

The Holy Guardian Angel is Pure Genius. It is merely convenient to externalize it. The results attained by communication with this entity are its only grace.

To deny the Holy Guardian Angel is setting up Knowledge as the Crown. One gets to the verge of the Abyss, and fearing the loss of Ego, sets up camp at the edge. It was not written lightly or in jest that it is the worst possible thing to
attempt the Abyss. One may imagine all they like that they have crossed the Abyss. But, if they have not changed themselves, they did not cross it.

This is the ultimate fear of a Black Brother. That they must change, give themselves wholly up.

It is a rotten kind of fear, that consensual lie that we exist apart from anything but for the convenience of playing the game.

[m1thr0s]

The Holy Guardian Angel is Pure Genius. It is merely convenient to externalize it. The results attained by communication with this entity are its only grace.Only if we allow for this kind of flexibility in the language itself can the principle be reclaimed. The problem I have encountered is that there are very few people able to make this kind of trade in their thinking so we are left with another religious zeal rooted in yet another inflexible gibberish.

One of the things that Abrahadabra provides is the grid itself which fans out from Ain Soph Aur and filters down to all the worlds below. This gridwork pattern cannot be distinguished from pure consciousness and is virtually identical in principle to the netting depicted in the Priestess Card in Thoth. Each of its strands, or threads, provides a conscious link back to source...each amounts to an awakening to higher memory of infinite being...none of which is rooted in Daath but stems from the Horizon of Eternity itself. In this respect, Abrahadabra can be rightly viewed as the so-called Holy Guardian Angel, laid out at the level of its anatomical enginery, accessable with or without regard to "belief" since there are means provided to test its authenticity.

It is primarily the old language which I find stifling and no longer suited to the demands of the Aeon of War & Science...

m1thr0s

[KCh]

The language is the greatest weapon of the Magus that weaves illusion. Especially when one is tricked into believing it.

I prefer the Golden Dawn term 'Genius' over the HGA. However, I don't knock anyone for using whatever term they will so long as they understand the basics of what you described about language M.

No matter the language, I am confident that everyone who walks comes to the same destination in time.

[m1thr0s]

yeah...I'll buy that.

It's kind of funny really since in most of my "mirrors" there will always be something that especially implicates the "being" behind the mechanism...it's a natural thing so I hardly think about it anymore but the mirrors don't work very well without this element included...it ceases to be a mirror, basically...

So the principle of the HGA is always there for me in my own processes...I just choose not to call it by that particular name I think...

m1thr0s

[sock]

To deny the Holy Guardian Angel is setting up Knowledge as the Crown. One gets to the verge of the Abyss, and fearing the loss of Ego, sets up camp at the edge.This is kind of interesting to me. HGA as 'genius' I can dig, though my own thoughts say that any part of your psyche externalised through association and worked on through whatever personal ritual is necessarily going to take on certain attributes and 'deliver' (in the case of your interpretation for the HGA) the 'goodies' in the form of inspired knowledge, gnosis, understanding etc.

Here's the thing; in modern day language, isn't passing the abyss sort of akin to fundamental change caused through a kind of traumatic insight into oneself and the nature of things around us?

And if that's even half right, doesn't that mean that whatever it's worth the HGA is just part of a map?

I really struggle with the idea that we can be separate from universal consciousness because we're part of it (echos of the universe), necessarily the maps we create are part and parcel of our understanding of it? Maybe it's possible to exist in other temporal dimensions, but aren't they too subject to a one-ish interpretation?

My example would be the idea that the universe is holographic in nature. The maps we create are just things we read or heard about, things we try out and either assimilate (dialectical) or discard. The fact that there has to be personal experience in that process is in itself a separation of sorts from a particular 'take' on universal consciousness?

[Naomi]

The Holy Guardian Angel is Pure Genius. It is merely convenient to externalize it. The results attained by communication with this entity are its only grace.

To deny the Holy Guardian Angel is setting up Knowledge as the Crown. One gets to the verge of the Abyss, and fearing the loss of Ego, sets up camp at the edge. It was not written lightly or in jest that it is the worst possible thing to
attempt the Abyss. One may imagine all they like that they have crossed the Abyss. But, if they have not changed themselves, they did not cross it.

This is the ultimate fear of a Black Brother. That they must change, give themselves wholly up.

It is a rotten kind of fear, that consensual lie that we exist apart from anything but for the convenience of playing the game.

Thank you, your work is greatly appreciated and useful to us.

NAmmit

[Copuldaemon]

I've re-read the replies to this and my thoughts on the subject has changed since I last posted on this.

Before I was thinking more of a theological=anti-theological=independant basis but that was a mere illusion.

Angels, what have you are here for us to reach our divinity because they're alligned with the divine will and they always want what's best for us. This can be overbearing as an experience like an over concerned parent but to part from it (which is impossible) is always a sum to the conclusion of the prodigal child.

HGA as genius is something that I too can chew more than a mystical perception and yes, words do give the illusion to the base of meaning and that is why so many are mislead.

Actual experience in such things can bring the difference in knowledge.

As for the point of giving ones self up entirely is a true challenge because how else can we know who we are if not distinctlively go by the experiences that've created our persona over the years since birth. That is a crazy concept, one that I can't imagine a genuine positive result.

But when KcH mentioned something along the lines of or what I percieved as one realizing failure when they realize that they're the same is profound to me as well.

Only because for me, I still feel that I'm the same underneath despite any kind of personal intellectual attitude that I might take over the years. I find that when extreme circumstances come, one's truth self shows but then one can change how they act at a particular time and the next time, they may fail. So how can one determine a success by this. It's more than saying everytime such and such happens I'm going to keep mindful to act this way because when such and such happens we most likely won't because our minds are conflicted with so many distractions and because of these distractions we adapt our mind set to deal with them and in that circle we loose whatever conventional wisdom we may attain by our genius. I hope you follow me on this.

So to set real goals, that are not only obtainable but to have a beneficial longer favor for us, we need to pin point an actual starting place to penetrate with in ourselves. This is hard when you consider the need to travel through so many layers of personalities, fears, prejudices, lusts, and other issues.

Who are we? Not who are suppose to be to others or to ourselves but who are we really. It's like when you enter a near empryical state, all worries are erased and there's pure bliss for that's how I'm guessing one is in the presence of the divine but this does not help either for to take what ever's gained from the inside and to use it in a continual wanted result way against the perpetual cycles of our woes in the outside is the real challenge I think. Any thoughts?

[m1thr0s]

Who are we? Not who are suppose to be to others or to ourselves but who are we really.personally I find the *what* more productive than the *who*...ie...*what are we*?

In a very real sense the *who* is not at risk anyway, though perhaps it may seem that way to many. But these are questions of Being and all of that stems from the Infinite anyway...I just don't see where it's really much of an issue. You can answer it by saying you are who you have always been, but knowing that person isn't as immediately important to you as understanding what kind of animal you are in general.

I suppose maybe this comes under the heading of sorting out the small stuff, leaving the big stuff to attend to itself. That may seem ass-backwards to some but the small stuff just happens to be the kinds of stuff we can modify.

m1thr0s

[Copuldaemon]

No it's not assbackwards and who doesn't like ass?

I suppose in an attempt to answer my question I would say that (stemming from my experiences) the closest answer to the core question is knowing what we're about from 3 to 4 years of age or around that time frame.
It's like the saying goes you are who you are before you got here and this is who we are before family and social life conditioning.
perhaps at a subtle level this is the epitome of the internal struggle. the true self struggling with the conditioned self ie the throne is fought over by he who is and he who should be and whoever recieves coronation, the title will then become he is why this is now and what will come and the decree will echo out throughout its kingdom.

[Copuldaemon]

another thought on this is that with where I am going with this; the consensual lie could be the dictate that suppresses the true/core self. To break free of it well...i'm not really going into the "true will" theme but in all mythology you can agree that the gods always bind and cast out the titans (so to speak) these great monstrous creatures who are always first before any coming modertate pantheon. They are outcasted because these beings/forms are terrible in nature and independant and answer to nothing and not only are they are a threat to the established/on coming order but they are more powerful then it; too powerful but still the gods always surmise a plan that succeed in the banishment and binding of such forms.
perhaps in a microcosmic scale this is so because to be wild and chaotic is not in accordance to order and civility and on a macrocosmic scale this is inevitable since man is becoming more civilized and moderate but if that is true, then it could also be said that because of this and on going world events, chaos is inevitable and back to the microcosmic scale, modern man is leaving his safe, spiritual fancies for the search of that what was before, that which is chaotic.
So the beginning brings and end and eventually the beginning.