Dark Qabbalah

[Anibis]

Addendum: it is considered appropriate to assume your interlocutor's position is strong and they know what they are talking about, and prove or disprove that assumption through discussion. Otherwise the conversation will degenerate into an empty-tongued flame war between straw men.
-A-
Edit: noticed that sethur's (incredibly rude and presumptuous) post was old, so it's not as much of a big deal... but lets keep this rigorous. k.

[EtuMalku]

This is what was taught:

On the original ToL, Yesod, the astral abode of man, is an exact reflection of the highest plane, Kether, an exactness of God.

The Fall represents mankind's and natures fall into materialism.This Fall shields us from the spiritual world and opens an Abyss between Man and the Divine. The RHP of traditional Qabalah aims to restore the original harmonic relation between man and the Divine.

The LHP fulfills and deepens the Fall. The Dark Adept continues the Fall from God to reach individual divinity.
The reason behind the Fall is often described as being hubris, man's search for knowledge and forces that originally were not meant for him to acquire. The LHP leads to a second birth, a spiritual rebirth as a god.

The original ToL did not contain the material world, instead the non-Sephira Daath existed., united by paths with Kether (above), Chokmah, Binah, Geburah and Tiphareth (below).

Lucifer-Daath, the original Serpent, represents the divine force of creation that is able to carry out God's idea of creation.
Lucifer-Daath sinks down to man's level and awakens the power of creation and the sexual energy in man. Thus, man can reach the knowledge which was previously only accessible to God.

The adepts of the LHP glorify the Fall and allow the destruction to be fulfilled. Leading away from the ToL and further into the ToK. the Qliphoth being viewed as fruits of the ToK

[DocHolliday]

Whomever tought you apparently had no grounding in Judaism. Your thoughts are fine, but are not pertinent to the purpose of any of my magical work. Just to iterate for the "umpteenth" time, I'm working within a classical framework.

[Anibis]

Where's the best source to get get a true appreciation of the vast difference between the two Kabbalistic 'traditions', Doc? I would think Gershom Sholem, right off the back, cuz that's who I read in this capacity, but I would think that might even be a bit dated... The traditions diverged when? In the rennaisance at the latest? Which is less to say that the traditions diverged, but more to say that Christian/Hermetic Qabalah "invented itself" around that time, using certain structural features of Kabbalah, but really really assembling a totally incommensurable tradition (with major neoplatonic sources at it's heart)... I think, Doc, that it's hard to a certain degree for people reading this stuff to fully understand that you are acting as a Jew, and not a 'magician' per sey (at least not in the hermetic/occult sense) ... NOW, anything I said that's got you pegged wrong, do correct it... That's just how I have intuited the situation... Cool.
-A-

[frater luciferi]

Where's the best source to get get a true appreciation of the vast difference between the two Kabbalistic 'traditions', Doc? I would think Gershom Sholem, right off the back, cuz that's who I read in this capacity, but I would think that might even be a bit dated... The traditions diverged when? In the rennaisance at the latest? Which is less to say that the traditions diverged, but more to say that Christian/Hermetic Qabalah "invented itself" around that time, using certain structural features of Kabbalah, but really really assembling a totally incommensurable tradition (with major neoplatonic sources at it's heart)... I think, Doc, that it's hard to a certain degree for people reading this stuff to fully understand that you are acting as a Jew, and not a 'magician' per sey (at least not in the hermetic/occult sense) ... NOW, anything I said that's got you pegged wrong, do correct it... That's just how I have intuited the situation... Cool.
-A-

the "esoteric" scene of the day was quite icestrous ...gnostics and hermeticists as well as students of kabbala would or did often pollinate ideas through close groupings. and it was the same during the renasaince as such...

[EtuMalku]

the "esoteric" scene of the day was quite icestrous ...gnostics and hermeticists as well as students of kabbala would or did often pollinate ideas through close groupings. and it was the same during the renasaince as such...

While I agree for the most part with you I would like to point out that Hermes (Hermetic) is actually the Egyptian God Thoth / Tehuti.
The Qabalaha, to me, is of Egyptian origin, though this is a very radical and unpopular concept, it is one I believe.
I also see the Judaic beliefs (all Abrahamic religions actually) as offshoots from the Kemetic religion and the work of Set.

[Anibis]

'Dark Qabalah', might be a bit of a misleading title for this thread, as it would seem there are at least two totally other "Dark Qabalistic" lines... I might add (Judaic) into the title of this thread, if you think that would help it...
-A-

[DocHolliday]

Aryeh Kaplan, Gershom Scholem, Daniel C. Matt, and Z'ev ben Shimon ha-Levy are the best go-to authors on the subject. Aryeh Kaplan has translations of the Sefer Yetsirah, the Bahir (I think), and works on Kabbalastic meditation which are perfect. Gershom Scholem is more of a historian and approaches the Kabbalah in that light. Daniel C. Matt is currently working on a full English translation of the Zohar, which should be about twelve volumes total. Currently, vols I-IV are in print (I own I-III). Z'ev ben Shimon ha-Levy is continuing a tradition started in Toledo, Spain. If you can find it, Moses Gaster has a translation of the Sword of Moses, which is one of the two extant grimoires - the other being Sefer Raziel. Another good source would be any translation of the books of Enoch and the Bookf of Jubilees (these can all be found, along with other similar works in "The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha," edited by James Charlsworth).

Anything else may require the ability to read and understand vague Hebrew

[EtuMalku]

My mistake, I am speaking from a Hermetic Qabalah respect and one that aligns 'Dark' with the Luciferian / Qliphothic energies.

[Anibis]

While I agree for the most part with you I would like to point out that Hermes (Hermetic) is actually the Egyptian God Thoth / Tehuti.

That's a quite disputable point. "Hermes Trismegistus" was modeled on Tehuti, sure, but Hermes is an older concept than the thrice-great. Pre-dates the period when the Greeks were in Egypt. Hermes the messenger and the trickster. Rennaisance Hermeticism I would agree with you is Thoth-inspiring, though.

-A-