Ningishzidda: The First Satan?

[Seipiriz]

It's an archetype like Set or Lucifer

It is very intersting your option of belief archetypes...Your option coresponds with the one of my most valuable professors back in school times...The thread is deep and interesting too..

[dev]

Great stuff m1thr0s (referring to the initial post). These are matters I myself are deeply interested in. The Caduceus, Satan, Serpent, DNA link is very interesting...

[Anibis]

lol, the bane of my existence as an esoteric philosopher. Danistry, you just refuse to admit that the world is run by shape shifting lizards from Yugoth that landed in Sumeria and formed the illuminati. Shame on you for being a dupe of the NWO. Should you, on the other hand, wish to be enlightened, I might be willing to sell you the secrets of Dianetics!

Hear, hear. Lets have a list of really solid primary sources for Ningishzidda. I am more willing to believe that the Sumerians knew a thing or too about advanced eugenics, as for actual gene splicing, we shall see...

-Ibisis-

Edit: Actually the list of sources above looks fairly extensive, so I'll explore that first before acting like nobody's given us any sources. I would though like it to be spelled out what we do actually know, and what the nature of the evidence is: Text, Pottery, whatnot... Okey...

[m1thr0s]

I seriously doubt that the Sumerians had a word for DNA specifically. Selective breeding was, however, an important factor in the rise of civilization, so it's very likely they did have their own version of genetic engineering. Different aspects of important cultural knowledge were typically embedded in the imagery of their godforms. There's not a lot more to it than that. In the Sumerian creation story, humankind is not just created from fairy dust or mud or whatever but came about as an expression of this breeding technology. Ng was given the task of producing an animal smart enough to serve as a suitable workforce, and humankind was the result...part animal, part god in essence.

I'm not real keen on all the UFO stuff either but it's not limited to the Sumerians. The Egyptian gods arrived in a "boat of creation" and Enoch presumably took off from earth in a so-called "translated city" and on and on. In ancient times, the "gods" were almost always asssociated to the stars of heaven so that would seem to open the door to all this UFO conspiracy stuff...for those who are into it that is...

I enjoyed my limited discussions with SatsUrn but I probably only ever caught about half of what he went on about. My interest in Ningishzidda may have been sparked with these discussions but is not based upon them at all. I am fascinated with an archetype that is an "underworld" form on the one hand connected to the Sumerian equivalent of the Tree of Life and clearly linked to alchemy on the other...not only on the basis of its original storyline, but also extending through time in the parallel symbolism of the serpent, or winged serpent and/or dragons everywhere. But I feel as though I have only just scratched the surface of it all in reality.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

In the Sumerian creation story, humankind is not just created from fairy dust or mud or whatever but came about as an expression of this breeding technology. Ng was given the task of producing an animal smart enough to serve as a suitable workforce, and humankind was the result...
m1thr0s

Do you know what the actual source of this legend is? Is it on a tablet, or what? I am interested but would like to know where exactly we know this from.
-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

Try Googling "Sumerian Creation Ningishzida" or combinations thereof.
I have seen actual translated texts and there are several classics. I don't have a lot of time for this today though...
I'll try to help with digging out the more scholastic stuff a bit later.

m1thr0s

[Ðanisty]

See, that makes a whole lot more sense now. They were breeding...not doing labwork. Of course, I had a feeling it must have been that way all along. As far aliens and UFOs, I don't see it like that. A "boat of creation"...who says that's a UFO? To me, UFOs are based in scientific ideas...a boat of creation may come from another world and go to another world, but not in the same way as a spaceship.

[m1thr0s]

A certain fascination exists among many people as to how ancient people might have known things that they seemingly should not have known. I have seen both very interesting and very ridiculous theories put forward along these lines. While I am not in a good position to document this stuff right now, one of the more interesting theories I have seen put forward has to do with the fact that many ancient cultures were a lot more aggressively involved in trance-state technologies than we are today and certain knowledge was often obtained as a result of being more adept at a kind of tool we no longer value very highly today, now that we have "cold hard science" to lick our wounds and fix every little problem.

Knowledge obtained by such a radically different means would also have taken on a radically different form and there might have been a whole different kind of checks and balances that kept it all running smoothly. It is possible that certain things were known that "shouldn't have been" known by todays measures but since they may have been using a whole different measures to begin with, who can really say for sure. Today the Microscope rules the world, but the ancients might have access to a kind of Macroscope we no longer use today. It's hard to say for sure, but the theory in itself fits a lot of other facts we do know about ancient civilizations, and even remnant civilizations that still cling to what is left of the old ways today.

So I am not prepared to say that ancient people did not have access to certain advanced scientific principles, but I do think it's fair to say they would not have been understood in the same kind of way that we understand things today and it's very likely that most of that knowledge gradually died off as a new way of looking at knowledge itself gradually gained sway with people.

m1thr0s

[Ðanisty]

Well, people tend to forget that ancient people were working with the same brains we have. They weren't stupid. They had the same potential we have. They just applied it differently. I just don't buy the idea that they must have had alien contact to do what they did. In fact, I think that's kind of insulting to humanity, really.

[m1thr0s]

I'm sure this is all a detour, but it's an interesting one that will eventually wind its way back. I was going to post an article called the Dogon Theory of Creation but it's oppressively long for a cut-and-paste job so I made a little pdf file which can be scanned here.

The point I wanted to make about all of this is that Carl Sagan's take on the whole thing is very typical of modern science zealots in general who automatically assume that (1) because the Dogon priests tell him they got all this information from an race of beings not of this world and (2) because there is no known way for them to have gleaned this information by any other known scientific means, this must necessarily imply that an alien race of beings came all the way to earth just to engage in a little scientific tete-a-tete with an obscure and isolated human culture! It never occurs to him that the Dogon almost certainly derived this information from trance work on some level and that while the information itself may in fact be sound, the symbolism it is wrapped in is not so very different than the symbolism common to all ancient people, ie, gods, angels, mysterious beings from nether regions and so on. These are archetypes, plain and simple. It is the arrogance of modern science to assume without thinking that its kind of knowledge is the only knowledge that can actually explain anything real in nature.

The ancients didn't have microscopes and computers and all this other modern science stuff so they used the stuff they had and in certain instances, under the right conditions, used by the right people in the right kinds of ways, these "old ways" were every bit as impressive as anything modern science is capable of pulling out of its hat...sometimes a great deal moreso in fact. But the world as a whole has mostly moved on from these old ways and has no real memory of those ways any longer. Until we begin to get a better handle on the science of knowledge itself, there will continue to be a great deal of ridiculous misinterpretation of the knowledge of ancient people.

m1thr0s