Ningishzidda: The First Satan?

[Amur]

Lol. I'm probably a hybrid from outerspace with somekind of set mission here. The information blew into my consciousness from a Gamma-ray burst originating near the beginning time of the universe. Whatever the heck this is supposed to mean Then again... The flipside of the coin might be that I'm just crazy *grin*.

Seen some pictures of supposedly very old cave-paintings where extraterrestrials gave somekind of stone-disc to the people. Can't remember what it was about and might as well been fake. But in my own humble opinion there are too many pointers around the globe to something outside that it is either somekind of archetypal thing inside the human mind or then somekind of external event which has taken place.

When I come to think about it, it's like MiB2. Aliens from all over the place experiencing life as a human. Too bad many of them go into their heavenly 'vibe' loosing touch with the planet itself lol.

You might want to evoke the Sumerian Gods and see what they have to say.

[m1thr0s]

It really is a fascinating mystery and Danisty has brought up some very important points here as well. We have to employ a certain amount of sophistication in our thinking when we say things like Ng = Genetic Alchemy for instance. I happen to think that this is a very true statement but the reasons I think this are conditional, having to do with how that symbolism filters down to today's language and knowledge. It doesn't necessarily mean that Ng was some sort of clinical DNA scientist per se or that the Sumerians were involved in anything resembling modern DNA research etc... And yet there are numerous indicators that genetics itself was understood on some very sophisticated levels by ancient peoples. How this is possible we don't really know but we are essentially the same animal today as we were 5-6000 years ago and the whole process of "knowing ourselves" will have led to many of the same kinds of conclusions I think. But we have to remember that the ancients got there in different ways than we would get there today...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

I'm also interested in this as I have already said in the first incarnation of this thread.

Could you maybe (if you like) share more of your insights pertaining the question that has led you to this character viz the caduceus, and its role?

I myself see it generally speaking as the staff of the shaman by aid of which he travels to the "outside" and through a re-interpretation of himself and his culture he brings with him new technology, healing and advice to his society. This re-interpretation could eg be (if hes a man): his woman-nature (see Ngs androgyny etc) or animal, madman and simply "all man is not" and all new insights; of course the snake is also a symbol for re-birth, (cyclical) renewal, the horns denounce a master of creation&duality/this world...and one can still see parts of this traveler/emissary-motive in Hermes.

Another interesting question of course is how much of that DNA-connection was actually conscious knowledge to the Sumerians (to us today its naturally very obvious)...and another could be the question of "water": or whatever it was that was held in Gudeas cup, and its implications...?

[Seipiriz]

Another thing which is very interesting is what was told before about divine archetypes...

In the most religious systems concerning polytheism there are godly stereotypes to be found such as the mother godess( Hera, Magna Mater, Isis etc) , the creator god (Hephastus, Ra, Dunan) ,the masculin god leader (Zeus, Odin, Wotan) and the god of trickery and change (Locky, Hermes and Thoth)...

As humanity with the turning of time, realised that the symbol of God that was used to make things happen that man believed he could not, could in fact concentrate all powers in one symbol, God became more abstract and faceless... We then reach the state of monotheism were archetypes take the place of the stereotypes and the abstract symbols are just two: The stereotype of Light, the God creator who is good, caring and ever powerful and the stereotype of Darkness the God destructor who is the incarnation of evil etc etc...

These stereotypes have a dual purpose 1) To examplify the society's appropriate behaviour and what happens if you do not follow and 2) To play the role of what man believes that he cannot do with his own power and do it for him after the proper imbuing of the symbol "God" with the proper energy..

The next step of humanity is what we now face as Atheism, a state of non believing , a state when humanity realises the big game of control and that the power lies within and needs no symbols to function...

Next stop : Autotheism

[m1thr0s]

that's one of the more interesting breakdowns of monotheism I have seen in awhile. I have often wondered what was really behind the need to consolidate the gods in this way, since it sacrifices a lot just in terms of the pure art and joy of a more diverse range of godforms. yet the need was apparently stronger to break the spell of dependance itself, although it seems to have largely tranferred it from one symbolism to another.

In atheism I think we do find a sort of blanket rejection of all symbols but it fails to account for the fact that not all symbols are created equal. Some symbols are intrinsically instructional in nature and are thus a language system in their own right...one we cannot logically dispense with and still have somewhere to go. So atheism has this tendency to declare its freedom only to hit a wall of stagnation promptly thereafter.

Perhaps in autotheism what we actually see is a retreival of those bits that actually serve us in a more direct sort of way, giving us the freedom to both engage and disengage from these symbols at will...

m1thr0s

[Seipiriz]

In atheism I think we do find a sort of blanket rejection of all symbols but it fails to account for the fact that not all symbols are created equal

I very much agree with you and to be honest I think that the phase of atheism is a very difficult and important state... In this state humanity must see that change should come in measures and that symbols as you say are not created equal . In this state humanity craves for guidance through research, knowledge and spirituality ...No , not all symbols are equal, so humanity must retrieve those symbols created for guidance, the symbols I call neutral symbols and utilise them as tools and not as dogmas...

What I fear most is that humanity might not be able to realsie that in the rampage of atheistic destruction...

[Anibis]

Hear hear. I like your breakdown as regards Monotheism. I'd like to add a slant to it. I'd say that part of that evolution had a lot to do with the tools and technologies available to the cultures in question. This pertains most notable to the primary communicative tools, ie writing and the alphabet. The cultures who were most steeped in polytheism typically used pictographic writing. As the phonetic alphabet began to be employed, cultures leaned more towards monotheism. The development of the printing press, I would say showed the re-producability of writing (and thus it's 'inauthenticity') and inaugurated the slow rise of atheism. Perhaps with the media we are currently employing we are moving more towards autotheism. Marshall Macluhan figured we were re-entering a shamanistic sort of perceptive state. It stands to reason now with the flood of information and technique, some better than others, that the stance with the most 'survival value' is the one that allows itself to sift through, select and integrate the symbols which are the 'truest'.
-Ibisis-
P.S. This evolution I think is even more interesting when we look at cultures that instead of adopting the phonetic alphabet continued with and refined the pictographic form. Perhaps that accounts for certain of the inventive aptitudes of the Chinese?
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[Kain]

That's a great point Ibisis. I hadn't really looked at this matter through the scope of language.

Kain

[Seipiriz]

Yes I think you are quite right Ibisis and I would like to point out that the phonetic alphabet was originally Found in the coasts of Mediteranian especially to civilizations with growing trade routes..

[Anibis]

The Pheonicians (Phonetic) were the first to perfect it, though the Egyptians were working on it, and had achieved at least a partially phonetic system, called Hieratic. interestingly, from what I understand the Mayan script is similar to this hybrid phonetic/iconic alphabet. It's interesting that the Egyptian monotheisms were attempts that never quite took hold, while the Hebrew monotheism (And Hebrew is founded in a big way on the Pheonician alphabet), was the first to really pull it off, so to speak.
-Ibisis